[pavel_lishin]

Another anecdote to throw in the bucket: they announced that we'll be returning to the office on July 10th, and also that we'll be pausing catered lunches on July 7th.

(I know that it's the peak of privilege to complain about not getting free food delivered to work, but this feels like all-stick, and literally no carrots.)

[hef19898]

Meanwhile, those unflexible, union-backed jobs in Germany now come more often than not with 40% remote work included, and guaranteed by signed, collectively bargained agreements.

[spacemadness]

I really hope this continued nonsense from our business leaders adds more fuel to the union fire.

[sologoub]

That sounds super interesting! Any source you can share to learn more about how that works in Germany?

[hef19898]

No source, but in general it worls like this: each indiszry has a leading union and a coreespondong, leading epmployer association. Those two collectively bargain for all represented employees at represented employers, e.g. salaries, workinng hours and so forth, up to a certain salary range. In one case, the metal and electric industry in Bavaria, those salaries can go up to close to 120k Euro for a 40 hour contract in the highest wage bracket (those salary table are public).

In addition to those general agreements, worker councils and thwir individual employers can, and routinely do, negotiate supplental agreements, e.g. extended working hours, christmas and vacation bonuses, overtime (up to the possibility to save up for early retirememt or fully paid sabaticals).

And since Covid, those agreements include up to 40% of remote work where possible. Before Covid, working councils, and thus unions as the majority of council members are union members normally, where oppossed to that. Which kind of makes sense, since most union members tend to be blue collar folks with serious problems when it comes to taking work home. And those priviledged, like in no shift work, bettwr pay and less physical labour, office folks (I am one of those) already had enough benefits (which I get). Covid changed that, even if I have no idea how that came about, I wasn't working in collective bargaining environment during that time.

Overall so, unions turned out to be way more flexible and pragmatic, as were employers, that some people, certainly myself, expected.

[tennisflyi]

I like your self-awareness.

[czbond]

One could consider a paycheck a carrot....

[ineedasername]

The paycheck is the baseline, a given when it comes to performing labor in this context. Perks of working in a given location are the carrots above and beyond the standard baseline of “I work, you pay me”.

[fnordpiglet]

That’s true. That’s why I literally just quit my senior technical leadership megacorp job that was now requiring me to come in 5 days a week even though I work with no one locally. So, I found a job that paid better and was more interesting and was willing to value my abilities over control of my corporeal being. The attitude that money can buy everything will lead these companies to be structurally uncompetitive.

I see the folks who seem to revel in these policies around me, they are precisely the people who go to work to act on a stage. I’m here to build things the world has never seen and make it a commercial success. I guess you get what you pay for with your carrots?

[bee_rider]

Giving people food is like the oldest trick for engendering loyalty in the book. It is cheap, but feels personal. “There’s no such thing as free lunch” is a two-way street.

Plus, if you don’t have food on campus, your engineers might go out to lunch, which always takes much longer. Add to that, since they are going out anyway they might go around the cubes and grab their friends for a group lunch trip (might as well carpool if you are leaving campus, right?), so hopefully nobody needs a disruption free stint of work between like 11:00 and 1:00.

Sure, the paycheck helps, it is just the most expensive way to buy somebody’s attention.

[pavel_lishin]

I mean, I could - and once again, I am reminded of the fact that I get to sit in front of a laptop instead of doing hard physical labor that I can literally see construction workers doing down the street.

But I can get a paycheck elsewhere, without the company suddenly doing a 180 on me with regard to my other benefits!

[jgeada]

Given that my employer makes more money from me than they pay me in salary, that carrot is for them, not me.

[candiodari]

This is what people always forget about work relationships. You need it for money. But if the employer doesn't also need it for money ... you don't have a job!

So you are almost always in a situation that your employer needs you more than you need your employer.

[czbond]

> So you are almost always in a situation that your employer needs you more than you need your employer.

Disagree with enough nuance to matter. The company needs someone, not necessarily you. It matters when it's your paycheck.

[smileysteve]

It's only a carrot if it changes the status quo;

If the employee is getting paid the same amount, and can get paid a similar amount for a different company without going to the office, it's not a carrot.

[ncallaway]

Sure, it’s a carrot for me doing work.

And if my boss had that attitude, I’d be out the door very quickly. I’ll let others enjoy that carrot.

[Ar-Curunir]

As opposed to workers working for the company for free?

[czbond]

As opposed to a hyper competitive market where the worker is replaceable due to the market OR a market where there is literally little to no high paying jobs available, even for qualified applicants.

[meepmorp]

No, my paycheck is why I show up at all, it's table stakes. Carrots are things that show I'm appreciated, and the bare fucking minimum to keep me there isn't a show of appreciation.

[mlhpdx]

Wow. This comes off as “yes, pay taxes AND make offerings to me”.

[meepmorp]

I get paid to work, I'm not there because I fundamentally care about the organization or what it does. If you want to motivate me to do more than the bare minimum, please do so through motivating me, not by telling me I should be grateful to work for you.

And, yes, I'm entitled to be treated well, just like everyone else.