[jart]

When you say train dispatching and control panels, I think you've illustrated how confused this whole discussion is. There should be a separate term called "operator interface" that is separate from "user interface" because UIs have never had any locus of control, because they're for users, and operators are the ones in control. Requesting that an LLM do something is like pressing the button to close the doors of an elevator. Do you feel in charge?

[TeMPOraL]

Oh my. This is the first time I've seen this kind of distinction between "users" and "operators" in context of a single system. I kind of always assumed that "operator" is just a synonym for "user" in industries/contexts that are dealing with tools instead of toys.

But this absolutely makes sense, and it is a succinct description for the complaints some of us frequently make about modern UI trends: bad interfaces are the ones that make us feel like "users", where we expect to be "operators".

[prpl]

I’ve seen such a distinction before, but I’ve been around telescopes and particle accelerators. Single system, but different roles in the same system with a different UI.

[jart]

Oh snap, did I just pull back the curtain?

[ilyt]

You put into words the things I've noticed UIs evolving away from.

It just feels like UIs of software 10,20, even 30 years ago were designed for "operators", people that actually worked with the software for hours at end, and so with a little bit of learning you could be dancing with keybindings and doing stuff as fast as CLI nerds.

Nowadays most seems to be optimized for first hour of use of new user and not much else, and the exceptions are software made "by operators, for operators", like for example KiCAD.

[ozim]

Downside is nowadays in office setting one has to operate 20+ different applications to get work done.

While as operator you would spend more like 80% of your time using the same interface and application.

I could spend my time to type 100WPM but I am not a typist - as a software dev it is quite enough to go with 40-60WPM because it is just small part of my work.

[ilyt]

> Downside is nowadays in office setting one has to operate 20+ different applications to get work done.

Like ? Even as a developer I'm not consistently using 20 different "big apps". 2 chat programs, IDE, terminal, mail client, wireshark, maybe some GUI DB tool if I feel lazy that day

> I could spend my time to type 100WPM but I am not a typist - as a software dev it is quite enough to go with 40-60WPM because it is just small part of my work.

Not really about wpm but ability to hit few shortcuts to get where I want instead of navigating thru 4 different panels to get to the one option I need

[ozim]

Maybe not daily, but still consistently: word/excel/pdf reader for documentation and all company documents to refer, web browser - each internal/SaaS app we use for tracking tickets managing deployments/repositories. I count each web-app as app, just like if I use GIT and kubectl from terminal still two different apps that I have to understand and operate with some knowledge but not in depth.

That was also my point on WPM I don’t operate computer like I would operate typing machine where I can learn set of motions and be done. I don’t operate terminal as well I operate apps That have text interface. These apps also change during months depending on what I am working on.

[TeMPOraL]

Indeed you did; half of my brain capacity is currently being used by a background process sifting through everything I remember ever thinking or learning that's associated with computers, to re-evaluate it in context of the difference between "users" and "operators".

Seriously. Until your comment, I thought the two terms to be synonyms.

[Animats]

UIs have never the locus of control, because they're for users, and operators are the ones in control.

Not really any more. The control systems for almost everything complicated now look like ordinary desktop or phone user interfaces. Train dispatching centers, police dispatching centers, and power dispatching centers all look rather similar today.

[jart]

That's because they're computer users.