[fwungy]

Most of the energy for BEVs is produced from fossil fuels as well.

The Gorilla in the Room for fossil fuel emissions is Russia and OPEC. Are Russia and OPEC going to walk away from trillions of dollars of oil wealth?

Are the developing nations, like India, going to walk away from cheap ICE technologies, for more expensive and complex green technologies?

If not, all the aggressive switching by the OECD nations is for naught.

Toyota believes the developing world will still want ICEs for a long time, and the oil nations will still want to sell it.

[panick21_]

> Most of the energy for BEVs is produced from fossil fuels as well.

Globally yes, but in many places where there is lots of BEV takeup, this isn't the case.

Additionally you are ignoring that a vehicle with a 25 year lifetime will have improving carbon efficency.

You are also ignoring the single most important thing, pollution of case and coal plants are not produced right in cities where lots of people breath.

> Russia ... India

I'm not sure why you are expanding the discussion to these topics.

> If not, all the aggressive switching by the OECD nations is for naught.

This is a bad attitude. You can't just lose all hope and never do anything because India exists.

Proving green technology on large scale and driving down cost will have an impact on India and other nations too. EV cars are constitutionally simpler then ICE vehicles and have the potential to be cheaper eventually.

The emissions in city alone make switching worth it. The cars are also just straight better in terms of driving.

> Toyota believes the developing world will still want ICEs for a long time, and the oil nations will still want to sell it.

That's a straw man argument. I never said they should stop developing ICE or stop selling ICE in the developed world or even stop selling them in the West.

I said Toyota should stop bullshitting, pretending the EV isn't already a gigantic market and that lots costumers want EVs. Toyota basically claims EV currently are trash and nobody wants them (that is true for their own EVs).

Toyota clearly wanted to be innovative and focused on Hydrogen and it went nowhere (except for the government money going to their pocket). Toyota while claiming they are pro environment is pushing against all emissions regulation, wonder why that is.

[Shaanie]

What's the car company revenue in the modern west vs India and other developing nations? I'm sure the developing world will still want ICE vehicles, but is that really where the money is?

[fwungy]

There are billions of people in the developing world, China, India, Africa. Their income is low per capita, but the combined numbers are so high.

Petroleum fuels are easy to store and transport in low infrastructure environments. Many areas don't have strong electric grids, they don't have 24hr electricity, and even if they do it's not reliable. They rely on inexpensive two and three wheeled vehicles extensively, much more than developed nations.

Mobility is needed for them to feed themselves and progress. It isn't a "nice-to-have", it's a necessity for life. This isn't going to change anytime soon.

[seanmcdirmid]

Most of those countries don’t have access to their own oil reserves, so are at the mercy of importing, and unless they can get a deal an sanctioned Iranian or Russian oil, they have to pay the same as other countries. In contrast, they have many more ways to generate electricity, even locally off the grid, that don’t require imports. I’ve stayed in places in China that have electricity via a water wheel (not reliable for sure, but enough to charge a bike), and no gas station for hundreds of miles around given low population density.