[tonymet]

There is a major step change in maintenance difficulty from motorcycles to cars .

motorcycles are more exposed and intimate so it’s easier to detect issues earlier .

Modern cars have adopted more non-user-serviceable tech. Intermediate procedures like clutch replacement , brake maintenance , tune ups are accessible to beginners on a motorcycle .

in general motorcycle maintenance is more accessible due to the open drive train, smaller footprint and user-serviceable technology .

For those discouraged to put their life in their own hands – it’s much riskier to put your life into someone else’s . You can mitigate the risks with checklists and solid testing procedures . Trust me , you will develop safety and quality standards that are much more rigorous than a shop .

[taeric]

Careful, there. Modern motorcycles are probably beyond many home mechanics, as well. Similarly, if it is for the hobby, older cars are fine.

And if you don't trust the shop you are taking your vehicle to for rigorous standards, you should probably look into a different shop. :(

[slicktux]

I recently took a car in for a clutch master cylinder replacement. It’s was for a Honda with a 4cylinder and it was buried inside the engine cabin below hydraulic ABS and the Break Master Cylinder; I’m mechanically inclined but this time I was too busy to make time for replacing it myself.

I get the car back and the idle is rough…it stalls (car is running lean)when disengaging the clutch and oddly enough brake booster vacuum is completely lost when it stalls…(not normal as breaking should work for a couple of pumps before stiffening the pedal). Almost crashed…

Anyhow I open the hood check all vacuum hoses for cracks or improper connections. Long story short the mechanic forgot to put the break master cylinders coupling gasket back on the brake booster was letting in unmeasured air causing it to lean and stall; which also caused me to loose breaking when stalled. Worst case scenario.

Honest mistake probably but I feel like the shop mechanic may have been rushing and completely messed up. Luckily I caught it. So yea I don’t trust most shops mechanics…

[taeric]

Do you have any reason to think that this is more common in shops than in home mechanic things? Because, "left over parts" is a stupid common thing that I have heard from all teardown and rebuild projects. To the point that I'm willing to wager it is more common for home repairs than it is for shop run repairs.

Further, you can always split it. Hire them to do it, but then you inspect it when done. If you are good enough that you can inspect after you did the work, you can inspect after anyone else did, too. Right?

[smileysteve]

Yes, I think it's more common in shops - especially discount shops. Anecdotally, with my first car, the first quick lube used the wrong wrench too tight on my oil pan bolt and basically stripped it; another friend got the incorrect filter one time.

I may know less, but I'm not being watched for efficiency; I'm less likely to break out an impact gun (partly because it doesn't fit under the car as easily) and I can compare the old to the new. And if I'm tired, I can take a break and check the manual.

And if I do the work, I do the test drive; and if something goes awry, I should know what to look for, for that rattle, that noise, or the next warmup. A quick lube tech might drive your car 30ft to a parking spot, and is likely thinking more about the next car than, any given noise, or whether the thermostat has cycled even once.

On your further, sure you can split the difference, and I do do that when I do take it to a shop, and most of the time I've not been impressed (though I have been with some bmw shops). But this only works if you know what your engine sounds and looks like when clean.

[taeric]

I haven't worked with enough discount shops to really know how well they can work. Biggest complaint I have with most that I have dealt with, is that they don't have the tools/information necessary to work on the modern vehicles, either. Frustrating, as I don't think it is a negative of the shop, necessarily.

That all said, interesting to read your perspective and how different our "priors/expectations" are. Would love to see some collected data to know how well this plays out.

In the vein of "car guys," I'm also curious if it conveys information to see clearly restoration vehicles near local shops. Just this AM, I noticed a classic mustang next to the main shop we use. I know they have fun working on some older vehicles.

[tonymet]

can you be more specific ? what systems?

[taeric]

Wrong post? I don't think I mentioned systems.

That said, I am mainly referring to modern gearing and injection systems. Basic maintenance is probably well within what folks can do. But that is true of cars, as well. No?

[tonymet]

there’s some truth. higher end bikes have electronic throttle and stability control. but still the bulk of bikes and the systems are 80-s tech . abs disk brakes . efi. controls are still mechanical and hydraulic (no software) . engine are traditional cam valves and accessible . transmissions are still 1950s tech

100% of a mid level bike and 80-90% of a premium bike can be self serviced

[taeric]

I'm a little surprised that brakes and such aren't electronic. I've seen wireless shifters on bicycles. And the gearing is something I would fully expect to be beyond most home mechanics. That is, I'm surprised the transmissions haven't gotten a bit more involved.

I suppose the market catered to itself, and things were kept more home serviceable for longer?