[wyclif]

Guilty as charged but complaints about "tinkering with Vim" kind of miss the point to me. Tinkering isn't a bug, it's a feature. Vim was designed in the UNIX philosophy of small tools that allow you to modify them to your needs.

Also, modern IDE layers for Neovim such as LunarVim or AstroVim make managing plugins trivial.

[galkk]

Nothing about vim is “small tool”. Maybe it was 40 years ago, but now it feels much more bloated and with too much tech debt accumulated during the years.

[wyclif]

Well, that's what the Neovim project is all about...stripping Vim down and removing the bloat and old technical debt. Have you tried Neovim? It sounds like it would be perfect for someone with those concerns.

[fiddlerwoaroof]

vim itself isn't a "small tool", but its command-driven nature and plugin ecosystem is very much in the spirit of composing small tools to get things done. Emacs, imo, is even more so.

[xigoi]

It still starts a thousand times faster than any IDE.

[fadedsignal]

Additionally, it still uses less resources. VS Code consumes at least 1 GB of memory for just a simple project. I am not even mentioning other IDEs

[taejavu]

In what way is it bloated? IIRC, the executable is less than 2MB, and without plugins it uses about that much memory too.

[galkk]

You forgot vim-runtime that is another 35mb and hard dependency on Debian.

But I was rather saying that if a program has 600 pages dense manual (vimbook) it is certainly far from Unix philosophy of small utility doing one thing.

Damn, it has built in file explorer and remote editor (netrw).

[arp242]

You can install vim-tiny on Debian, which I believe doesn't install the runtime files.

Size is not really a good indication of "bloat" IMO. There are 683 syntax highlight files, 7.8M in total, but you don't load most of that and it's just "idle" bytes on disk. Same for indent files, ftplugins, etc.

You could also save ~5M by not shipping translations, but is that "bloat"?

It's useful these things are shipped, and in the scenarios where you care about 35M of diskspace you probably don't want a full Vim anyway (and you can use vim-tiny).

[galkk]

I wasn't speaking about binary size, it was the answer to message that vim is 2mb binary. Bloat is that vim, even without scripting, is huge, and, at the same time, a lot of standard things are suprisingly missing. Even author of neovim felt that

[alwillis]

> But I was rather saying that if a program has 600 pages dense manual (vimbook) it is certainly far from Unix philosophy of small utility doing one thing.

Sorry but I think you're confusing Vim with Emacs, the editor with the unofficial motto of "a great operating system, lacking only a decent editor" because of the tendency for users to do many computing tasks inside of Emacs (like playing MP3s) that had nothing to do with editing text.

Neovim is a refactor of Vim with 30% less code. They got rid of obsolete platforms (sorry Amiga and OS/2 users) and many features that no longer made sense or were replaced with newer/better functionality [1].

[1]: https://neovim.io/doc/user/vim_diff.html#nvim-missing

[kstrauser]

It strikes me that that’s roughly 0.05% of the RAM on my desktop.

[StrangeATractor]

GP mixed up vim with emacs.

[wyclif]

Correction: AstroNvim.