[lacker]

Taking their calculations at face value, they estimate the fatality rate of Tesla's system as 11.3 deaths per 100 million miles.

That is more than a standard car, but it isn't the most dangerous thing we allow on the road. For example, the fatality rate of riding a motorcycle is 31.64 deaths per 100 million miles.

source: https://www.californiaaccidentattorneysblog.com/california-m...

The per-mile risk of a self-driving Tesla is roughly the same (within the range of estimates this source gives) as the per-mile risk of riding a bicycle.

source: https://bicycleuniverse.com/bicycle-safety-almanac/

It doesn't really make sense to ban this new technology which is basically in the middle of the pack in terms of risk. Personally, I don't have a Tesla, and I would be reluctant to use their self-driving technology. But I don't ride motorcycles either. I don't think we should ban either of those things; consenting adults should be allowed to take the one-in-a-million risk that is driving ten miles in a self-driving Tesla, just like they are allowed to ride motorcycles.

[crote]

There are three major problems with this argument.

First, Tesla's system is primarily engaged on easy roads, and will automatically disengage in tricky situations. This means their safety figures are heavily skewed by the implicit exclusion of many accident-prone locations.

Second, comparing per-mile numbers across wildly different modes of transportation is impossible. Cars often drive literally an order of magnitude faster than a bicycle in a low-risk environment: it's called a "highway". Meanwhile, bicycles spend all their time in high-risk environments.

Third, it completely ignores the cause. A "bicycle fatality" is almost always actually a car killing the cyclist. Bicycles don't do the killing. Meanwhile, an "FSD fatality" is usually someone who actively got killed by a car with FSD engaged.

Once your are comparing apples to apples, Tesla suddenly looks a lot worse. And even if it were as safe as they claim it is, they should not automatically be allowed on the road. A lot of accidents are caused by poor or distracted driving. That's already illegal, and anyone caught doing so would be prosecuted for it. If Tesla acted exactly the same on the road, it should be prosecuted too. Right now they are shifting all the responsibility onto the driver who is supposed to "supervise", but considering how their product is marketed I do not believe they should get away with that loophole.

[morsch]

> The per-mile risk of a self-driving Tesla is roughly the same (within the range of estimates this source gives) as the per-mile risk of riding a bicycle.

That may be true, but the reader is reminded that a typical car trip is probably five to ten times as far as a typical bike trip (is that a reasonable guess?), so the risk per trip is five to ten times as high. The safety figures often quoted for plane travel share similar characteristics.

[nickserv]

Not to mention the disparities in cycling infrastructure. Riding in typical North American suburbia, on stroads with maybe some paint to protect you from fast driving SUVs is completely different from riding in a physically separated cycle lane in a speed controled city.

[YellOh]

Also... if you're in a car that's more dangerous than usual, you have a higher risk of injuring yourself and a higher risk of injuring/killing others. If you take a bike, you're probably not going to slaughter a pedestrian.

[paulryanrogers]

Motorcyclists and bicyclists take their own risks. Tesla drivers risk killing others as well as themselves.