[emptysongglass]

Unfortunately, this is the thread that all these arguments begin: demonstrative ignorance of either the science, the research, or both. They originate in ignorance and because of ignorance, the response is terrible fear and prophecies of the End Times. It's no different than any other brand of fear.

There is no evidence that processing power = mind. None. There is no evidence that the human condition is any way related to some kind of terra firma of logic. In fact, there's considerable evidence that feelings are so entangled in the experience of humanness that the idea of divorce or separation is a false one. "Being human" is primarily a feeling experience that drives narratives, motivations: it underlies every single activity we engage in.

This is why people like Eliezer Yudkowsky and his ilk are so totally off the mark: it's no coincidence that the Less Wrong community and AI doomsayers can often be found on the same side of the aisle. Both camps believe in and idealize a distinct logic mind that can be attained. Funnily enough, it's still fear, a very human feeling, that is the basis for all these proclamations.

My worry is this camp garners enough influence to convince someone an AI doomsday is right around the corner unless immediate action is taken.

[fnordpiglet]

Buddhism says that this isn’t at all what being a human is. It says that the feelings and narratives are an aspect of the human mind, but not core to it. My conception is they are like feedback sources/optimizers and constraint engines. The worries, narratives, voices, chattering are self important feeling and trick us into believing they are who we are. However, a key aspect of vipassana and related mindfulness is building the ability to be aware of those processes from a part of us that has no voice, has no experienced feelings, but is able to be aware of them independently and control them. This source is where our agency derives from, and it does not have to be driven by feelings or the narratives, it is in fact able to suspend them and simply exist as it is. This is what is known as nirvana, which has attained weird mystical meanings in our culture, but essentially means attaining and maintaining a mind that has fully subordinated the “self” driving narrative and emotional soup. The loudness of feelings and our chattering monkey mind self support themselves internally as being “who we are,” but, again my own conception, their importance is an illusion they create internally. All this said, they are certainly a part of what makes us human, in so far as a foot makes us human. But you can function and live a full and complete life in the state of nirvana without losing anything.

In fact in my 30 year practice at one point I was scared to bring the practice into my daily lived life fearing being uncompelled by these processes and having a clear mind would make a robot or something - but the opposite was true. At some core level I knew my experiences and connections deeper than a feeling, and the people around me felt I was finally with them for the first time.

My point here is that the western conception of what it means to be a human is not particularly simple and it’s not the case, assuming thousands of years of Buddhist practice isn’t a crock, that our feelings and thoughts are the core of what it is to be human. Further - if they are illusions and feedback systems, they can be simulated as constraining feedback systems in an artificial mind just as easily.

I think the nature of what is human is much deeper in our minds, but because it’s not easy to examine like feelings and thoughts, I think we really do not understand it very well. This leads me to my long labored point - I agree with the original poster that we don’t understand consciousness. I believe we over estimate our understanding of what it means to be human. I do not however think our machines will achieve it either. But I don’t know why we need to make an artificial human. AI means intelligence, not human. A natural human takes 9 months and we have too many of them, let’s try for something different.

[visarga]

Meditation is useless for gainful activity. Maybe a way to relax and have artistic experiences, but not a goal worth putting much energy into. Better go do something, meet people, in general don't abstain from action. Spoken from personal experience, I have seen lives wasted with "spiritual" inaction.

[fnordpiglet]

Meditation in Buddhism is practice for living life in the present. It in itself is nothing, although it can be a pleasant experience and that’s nothing to dismiss. There are a ton of different uses of meditation and I won’t diminish any of them. However vipassana meditation is NOT meant to be an end or a goal, nor is it meant to be an excuse to avoid the world. It’s practicing building awareness of your thoughts, feelings, and physical state without becoming entangled and lost in them as we spend most of our lives. In fact, bridging the practice into day to day life is the ultimate goal. Buddhism definitely does not teach avoidance of the world, in any of its experiences good or bad. Quite the exact opposite - it teaches you to be entirely present in what actually is in the present happening. Finally Buddhism emphasizes a moderate path in everything. Meditating all the time is not good. Neither is constant activity. If you find yourself getting so attached to the pleasures you feel from meditation, you’ve entirely missed the point. It’s a tool, a method, a practice of isolating the inner mind, the awareness, from being enmeshed in illusions such as the chatter of your mind or the feelings of anxiety or depression or the pain of your cancer.

[melagonster]

they are preparing for a probably scenario. most of company try to implement it.