[rollcat]

> On the other, I can't help but feel we're losing something when even a purist distribution like Debian is forced to concede in the fight against proprietary firmware blobs.

The software needs hardware to run, and the whole point of the software is to make the hardware useful. If you can't use the hardware, what's the point of the software?

In my book, freedom is a function of usefulness. No amount of redistributable source code has any value to me if I can't run it.

Enabling the use of hardware I already own is not a compromise, it's a solution. It's what operating systems exist for. Debian is fulfilling its primary function. I'm glad that this necessity was finally recognised.

[still_grokking]

I disagree. I'm very disappointed that this "necessity" came into existence in the first place.

By being forced to install non-free BLOBs to be able to use "our" devices we actually admit that we're not the ones who actually control "our" computers. That's admitting full defeat! You're not the owner of "your" devices.

Given that computers are now kind of "brain extensions" this means you're not in control of a substantial part of yourself.

This has quite some implications! And I'm not even thinking about such things like future computer devices connected directly to human brains…

[arp242]

You don't control the hardware in the first place. Can you modify the microchips on your hardware? Can you modify the printed circuits? Can you modify a ROM in hardware? In all those cases the answer is "not really", short of some spectacular reverse engineering effort and specialized hardware and skills that even most technical users don't have (you can modify anything with enough effort). All this focus on firmware seems rather misplaced.

[5e92cb50239222b]

Let's not conflate hardware with software. The first one is practically impossible to modify for a completely different reason than the second one (physical limitations and the need for specialized hardware that costs serious money vs artificial limitations imposed by developers). You can at least repair it (unless you bought into the Apple ecosystem — you knew what you were getting into then), and a relative of mine makes good living doing just that.

[arp242]

Firmware is inextricable tied to hardware; you could pretty much say it is hardware. Hardware has had "software" in it for decades and no one complains about it either, except when this software is loaded in a particular fashion.

[rollcat]

Then don't buy hardware that requires non-free firmware.