[gattilorenz]

> Stalin had no issue working with Hitler

To be honest, the other european powers (France, but especially the UK) also had a big trust issue with Stalin, and provably had a big role in making the unthinkable (the communist-nazi alliance) happen.

[qwytw]

> also had a big trust issue

Stalin spent the last few years murdering millions of people. Without the benefit of hindsight Hitler clearly seemed like the more benign options prior to 1939..

[the_af]

I don't think this factored into Western distrust. The West had sided with White Russians and against Bolsheviks since forever, way before any purges or Holodomor or whatnot.

It's interesting that Stalin tried to get the West's help against Hitler before he giving up and making a truce with Germany to buy time.

Keep in mind that Germany was close and Hitler had stated he intended to expand eastwards towards Russia and he had declared that "Bolshevik Jews" were the ultimate enemy of Germany. If Stalin felt the Soviet Union wasn't ready for that fight, it makes sense that he would try to stall it. (Yes, then there's Poland and all that jazz. History is complicated).

[gattilorenz]

Sad as it may be, I don’t think this has ever been a real problem for other countries. In the case of Stalin, the issue was lending credibility to socialism. Herr Hitler looked like a respectable man because he was very much against socialism, sending those filthy reds to a lager.

[qwytw]

Weimar Germany was mostly dominated (to the extent that it could've been, being such a mess and of course they never had an outright majority) by the socialist party. They hated the bolsheviks as much as(if not more) anyone, even going as far to having them shot and thrown into canals...

Arguably without Stalin and USSR supporting German communists most of their voters (~10% of the country) would've shifted to the Socialists party. Strengthening the Socialist-Liberal-Christian Democrat coalition and making it harder for far-right parties to take power.

UK had a socialist government between 1929 and 1931 and the Labor prime minister continued running the government until 1935 supported by the Conservatives after the Labour party split (and unlike today the Labour party considered themselves to be actual socialists). Socialists also had significant influence in the French republic as well.

> Herr Hitler looked like a respectable man because he was very much against socialism

Or rather the French and the British were much more preoccupied in dealing with their internal issues during the Great Depression to pay too much attention to what was happening in Germany.

Also The British prime minister at the time when first came to power and for the 4-5 years after that was a self-avowed socialist. Which would have made it a bit weird if what you're saying was right.

> In the case of Stalin, the issue was lending credibility to socialism

Why are you equating Bolshevism/Communism with Socialism? The bolsheviks overthrew a Socialist government to come to power after all and suppressed all socialist parties whenever and wherever they could.

[gattilorenz]

You have a point when you notice that I lazily used “socialism”, I did mean the bolsheviks and the communist revolutionaries.

I think the rest wouldn’t change much: the things you mention don’t have much to do with having moral scruples against Stalin’s mass murders. It seems to me that the main reason was still “we don’t do business with bolsheviks”. Of course the main reason is not the only one, and had the other powers realized who was leading Germany they maybe would have been more open to Stalin’s requests…

[qwytw]

> I think the rest wouldn’t change much: the things you mention don’t have much to do with having moral scruples against Stalin’s mass murders.

I don't agree ( if you also include Lenin's mass murders). Of course a lot of it has to do with the fear the the Bolsheviks would do the same in their countries in they ever came to power.

> It seems to me that the main reason was still “we don’t do business with bolsheviks

Main reason of what? Poland had some pretty good reasons to not want any soviet troops in it's territory.

> would have been more open to Stalin’s requests…

Like allowing him to have Eastern Europe? Well the Anglo-Polish treaty even had a secret clause saying that it only applied in case Germany specifically attacked Poland and Britain was not obliged to join the war in case the Soviets invaded.

Again it's not that relevant. It's highly unlikely that Germany could have defeated France in 1940 without Soviet support. Germany had almost no oil and many other vital resources left after the invasion of Poland (it imported most of it's oil from America). So the Soviets simply had to stay out it. They chose to support Germany instead. I really don't see how anything that the allies did could be considered to be more foolish and/or shortsighted than the German–Soviet Commercial Agreement of 1940.

Amongst other things Germany would've entirely ran out of grain, rubber, manganese and oil by the Autumn of 1941 or much earlier without the imports form the USSR but Stalin had a better plan which resulted in millions of unnecessary deaths..