[supernova87a]

I have a somewhat different concern, exposed by the map and how far some places are from being well served. The map itself is great.

Will the NYC subway system ever evolve further? My mind is on Tokyo a lot lately, because of some recent visits, and also probably related I get served up a bunch of Youtube videos about how the Tokyo metro has evolved over time.

The subway system in Tokyo improved over decades by forcing interoperation of rail systems, improving control systems, building new track, unified fare systems, etc. etc.

So today you have a system where (for example), every 5 minutes, you can take a commuter train from an outer suburb that enters the city center, becomes a subway train, lines up with automated platform gates, hits every stop within seconds of expected, emerges from the subway system and continues to the airport as an airport express train.

They did this not out of some desire for some luxury level train system, but because it was necessary to support the number of people who had to rely on it as a system. Of course, they had the benefit of being a system that could change post-war, and bulldoze land that was not yet staked out and developed.

But still, is NYC's subway forever frozen in the current state of shittiness? What needs to happen / how will it happen that it ever improves from here? How is the demand for the NYC subway not turning into improvements? We're just out of money and political will I guess?

[woodruffw]

As someone who's a subway "maximalist": despite my (and millions of others') desire for a radically expanded network, I don't think we'll see one. The political (and capital) costs of expanding the network are immense, and the incentives are all wrong: the MTA is a state agency rather than a city one, meaning that a perpetually underfunded and worse-than-acceptable subway system is a useful piece of political leverage against the city.

Instead, we may see some "expansion" the network by reviving old lines that have fallen into disuse and taking over industrial/freight lines that see less use. The IBX[1] is one such development; my hope is that the MTA also considers re-expanding the G's service back out to Forest Hills (as it was before 2001)[2].

TL;DR: Massive capital investment and home rule need to happen.

[1]: https://new.mta.info/project/interborough-express

[2]: https://greenpointers.com/2023/01/23/op-ed-5-ways-to-improve...

[nashashmi]

No one likes the current design of subway systems. Therefore it won't see any expansions. The new expansions currently in play are real deep and real expensive. Again no one likes this new design either. No one likes the system of elevated rails. No one likes the bussing system.

What do people like? The expanding ferry line. The trolley on 3rd Ave Brooklyn. The air train. Cheaper fares.

Until there is some new tech that can get people excited about public transportation again, we won't be seeing any new investments.

[mikeevans]

Do people actually like the air train? I've never heard anyone say they'd prefer it over a subway that actually went to JFK. (and the increased cost/inability to use OMNY is ridiculous)

[wwalexander]

I find it very silly that tourists need to buy a MetroCard just for the transfer from the AirTrain to the metro, and then never need it again afterwards because of OMNY.

[nashashmi]

Agreed . That is ridiculous. I encountered the same experience .

[newyorkahh]

Definitely, my wife went to JFK this week and instead of taking the A to Howard Beach she went to Atlantic for the LIRR to Jamaica and AirTram from there.

Faster and nicer.

[supernova87a]

Much agreed. I far prefer LIRR+Airtrain rather than taking the noisy and rickety subway.

Note the helpful Cityticket discount fare on LIRR as well!

[nashashmi]

any form of new transportation is a welcome experience

[voidfunc]

It sort of helps that Tokyo was firebombed into oblivion roughly 80 years ago. Much easier to build, expand, and maintain. Also an entirely different culture around transportation and property rights not to mention civic pride.