[karaterobot]

The purpose of posting this may be to reiterate that old canard about "twenty years ago, people were saying what we're saying now, therefore it isn't true." If not, I apologize for assuming so. In any case, my reading is, it was true in 2007, and it is much worse now. The predictions about centralization were incorrect only in the names of some of the players, and in not having the benefit of knowing about the role of mobile devices in consolidating and controlling attention.

[pfannkuchen]

Relatedly, some old quote from the Romans or Greeks is often brought up where someone laments youth behavior as lazy and immoral, and it’s referenced as proof that old(er) people always say that so it doesn’t mean anything.

However, isn’t it possible that they were on a downward trajectory, and we are too? And that at other points in time, not referenced, old(er) people may have felt differently?

[petsfed]

Considering that the old quote is Cicero criticizing pre-dictator Julius Caesar for the way he wore his toga (and not, you know, all the things that Sulla might've put him on the Proscription Lists for), I'd argue its more that old people consistently criticize the wrong thing about young people, focusing on the superficial, rather than the substantive.

EDIT because I forgot to add:

This missing the mark is rarely because there's something intrinsic about old people and other people's haircuts. Its more that we are generally raised to respect (as authorities) our elders, and sort of subconsciously expect that people younger than us will in turn grant us the same respect. So the criticism basically comes down "they're not giving me what's due to me".

Meanwhile, if the criticism leveled against Caesar came down to "he's waaaaay too ambitious, and has already shown a propensity for ignoring social mores to get what he wants", then Cicero's criticism might feel more prescient, and less like an old man shouting at a cloud.

All of that said, its actually really hard in the moment to identify what will be dangerous to society before it comes up. So maybe Cicero had a feeling in his gut, but all he could come up with is "he's kind of sloppy with his toga"

[pfannkuchen]

Actually, I am thinking of a different old quote:

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

This could show that older people always think these things about younger people. Or, it is possible that the respective cultures were in a period of decadence both then and now, and that the views of older people are at least somewhat accurate or meaningful.

[petsfed]

Wikiquote has some interesting things to say on that [0].

Given that it is, at best, paraphrasing what Plato claims infamous scold and gadfly Socrates said, I'm inclined to reject the quote in its entirety. Anything Socrates is quoted as saying has to be viewed through the lens of "what does Plato want the reader to get out of this?". The answer, invariably, is whatever it takes for the reader to abandon Athenian democracy and take up Plato's weird mandatory warrior-athlete-philosopher society.

0. https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Socrates#Misattributed

[invalidOrTaken]

worth noting that the Roman and Greek empires did, in fact, fall

[basch]

If anything, it shows that the blogspam repost problem still hasnt been solved. Still no browser extension that finds the original and replaces all rehosts with it.

[pessimizer]

> Still no browser extension that finds the original and replaces all rehosts with it.

You'd think that'd be a job for search engines, but they don't seem to care about the product.

[basch]

No matter where I get linked from, Reddit, Facebook, an email, if nbc.com reposted an AP/Reuters story either verbatim or poorly summarized with no additional information, I just want to be sent to the AP/Reuters story.

Techmeme.com hand selects either the first or best source for each headline. Something community maintained like that, where any duplicate story redirects to the primary, unless it’s a follow up or editorialized comment that has actual substance.