[albert_e]

MKBHD reveiw of the AVP says Apple WILL NOT make controllers for the AVP.

That struck me as odd. (Obviously anyone can connect a bluetooth controller and give users some extra control, assuming this device supports open bluetooth for audio etc.)

It is one thing for Apple to claim that their latest gadget does not NEED any controllers for basic navigation and selection. Because they invested so much in perfecting a gensture based system. So far so good.

It is far more presumptious if they say they will NOT allow controllers.

When claiming credit for launching a new space called "spatial computing" -- it is very short-sighted / arrogant to state that a one click finger gesture is all you will ever need for all your comupting needs.

There are games obviously where multiple simultaneous actions need to be triggered. There are 3D modelling applications -- actually a great use case for a AR/VR HMD. And I am sure there are tons of other applications that can benefit from innovative and ergonomic approaches to interactions. Why would Apple go out of their way to say there will be no controllers.

Apple should ideally have an open SDK to allow third party wireless controllers. Knowing apple though ... they will probably sell $499 bluetooth earbuds and call them Apple Ear Pro or something.

[faeriechangling]

I’m sceptical for a very simple reason. When Apple came up with the UI for the iPhone, the functionality of it wasn’t some vague promise, Steve Jobs gloated at length about how intuitive it all was while audiences gasped and applauded over and over. He did this by introducing several new sensors and technologies simultaneously.

Not really seeing that this time around.

[pnpnp]

I think a lot of that was just the Steve Jobs’s presence and presentation style.

It’s pretty bananas they’ve crammed an M2 into a headset with all the cameras, sensors, ML engines, and high res displays. The M2 chip alone (I have an M1 Pro) is still blowing my mind with the low wattage performance.

But much like the first iPhone, it is yet to be seen if it will stick. I do think it’s far more capable than existing VR headsets.

[Foxhuls]

I really think people aren’t putting enough weight behind the fact that it’s going to have an M2 chip in it. Obviously there’s no way to tell if it’ll deliver until it’s released but the idea of having a headset with potentially the full power of a MacBook is kind of insane.

[albert_e]

OTOH wasn't it inevitable -- that small devices of tomorrow will overtake the most powerful cutting-edge gadgets of the past in computing power, storage, performance.

Maybe in a decade small thumb-drives will have an M2 chip equivalent built into them. To encrypt/decrypt data on the fly with zero latency on multiple GB/s data. Or whatever other application can gobble up that much compute power.

[gorbypark]

I think the eye tracking is the multitouch of this generation of devices. It's not a new idea, but it's the first device to ship with it (at least in the "consumer" space). Even if they end up with some sort of controllers in the future, the eye tracking enables so many interactions. Not to mention foveated rendering, which they mentioned in a few of the slides. Basically, render a super high quality dot where the user is looking, and fade out the quality in the peripheral vision. 2x4k screens is a lot of pixels to render, even with the M2 being a decent GPU, but with eye tracking, it's possible to really push the rendering quality.

[throwaway2990]

They have insanely low latency. Every VR has noticeable latency but so far everyone who have tried vision pro says it’s unnoticeable. That’s a huge leap forward. And this is in a device that doesn’t feel like a center block on your head.

[veidr]

I haven't heard that they won't allow them. Just that they won't make them. I suspect it would support Xbox and Playstation and Nintendo controllers at launch, even, since their other platforms do.

However, VR controllers are different in that they need to be tracked as they move through space much more precisely than those console controllers support. But maybe third-party VR controllers can also be supported. I think nobody knows that yet.

[drewbeck]

There's a reference in this developer video [0] to using VR controllers

[0] https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10088/?time...

[veidr]

I guess that makes perfect sense, actually, now that I see they are making such a big push to make Unity games work. Presumably some of those existing Unity games can't work without such controllers.

Good news!

[armadsen]

Yep, they explicitly mentioned (and showed, IIRC) that you can connect game controllers to the Vision Pro. Presumably it will indeed be PlayStation, Xbox, and Switch controllers, as well as the various third party controllers specifically sold for Apple devices.

But no word that I’ve seen on VR controllers.

[numpad0]

If you hold one Apple Remote each on your hands, and your hands were perfectly tracked, isn’t that basically same as Quest 1 with controllers?

[veidr]

definitely not

[bredren]

IIRC, Apple didn’t make a stand to hold the Apple Watch charger either. At least for Series 0.

And, I don’t think they had a stand for the iPhone Magsafe either. Here’s the intro video showing it’s use with just the cable:

https://youtu.be/82po_sYbbio

Both examples strike me as strange since using either without something to keep the charger in place is a joy it setup, possibly worse than trying to keep an 8 pin from falling behind your bed stand again.

Apple doesn’t choose not to make these kinds of things because they aren’t needed. It chooses not to make them to narrow their focus.

Apple had planned to be out of the display market as well.

I believe the Studio display and even the XDR are possibly the result of failing to meet original timelines for Vision.

The company continues to sit out home networking despite the success of AirPort Extreme and generally confusing and messy state of the market.

So it is no surprise to me they wouldn’t be trying to guess at controllers. They are working on a platform.

[drewbeck]

There's a reference in this developer video [0] to "using VR controllers" – I don't think they're going to disallow them, just not make their own.

[0] https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10088/?time...

[silvestrov]

Personally I think this is what has held Pads (and iPhones) back from becoming better at gaming: sometimes a PlayStation style controller is just way better than touch controls on an iPad. Touch controls often don't register with the same reliability as physical controls and it does not have any physical feedback.

Apple should have made a standard gaming control that all games could use.

[veidr]

But the Playstation controller is a (de facto) standard gaming control that all games can use. They just let Sony make it.

(IIRC though Xbox and Nintendo controllers can also be used.)

[EamonnMR]

I've wanted finger guns as an input mechanism since the Kinect disappointed me with its lack of finger gun halo. But the tracking would need to be crazy precise.