[autoexec]

> There are billions/trillions of these creatures who are eaten alive every year in the wild. Why is it so significant that humans also do this?

Most animals eat other animals in such cruel ways because they don't have better means available to them and because if they didn't use the teeth and claws they have to catch prey they'd starve. Humans don't have to be needlessly cruel in order to eat an animal. For us, it's a choice.

I'd prefer that every hamburger I eat comes from a cow who lived a long happy cow life then died suddenly and without pain. There's no section in the meat department at my grocery store for "happy cows that died painlessly" though, so I'm left with what's available. I can accept that, but there's zero reason for me to torture a live cow and excuses like "well, a lion would have ripped it apart while it was alive" wouldn't justify my actions if I did.

By all means, eat animals! They're delicious! At a minimum though, we shouldn't go out of our way to make a living thing suffer.

[johnnyanmac]

> I can accept that, but there's zero reason for me to torture a live cow and excuses like "well, a lion would have ripped it apart while it was alive" wouldn't justify my actions if I did.

TBH I just see it as false platitudes since there's it's very likely the burger I'm eating wasn't some ethically raised and slaughtered cow. Sure, I didn't do it, so clearly I'm absolved of all fault there.

[autoexec]

I know others who feel the way you do, and they're vegetarians because of it. I disprove of industrial farming practices, but I do take a lot of comfort in the fact that I, personally, am not inflicting suffering on a live animal. If I had to personally raise and slaughter every animal I ate, I doubt I'd do much meat eating.

When I have the option of choosing meat from a cow raised and slaughtered ethically I'll take that one every time, but usually I have no idea of the provenance of a particular hamburger patty and that likely does wonders for my peace of mind.

[LinXitoW]

It's really hard for me to understand how you can so clearly understand how unethical all this is, and still choose to participate. You frame it as not having a choice, because there's no Wagyu/organic/"happy" beef available. Yet, almost always, there's the option of NOT eating the beef.

I find most "happy" beef is nothing more than an illusion for lazy rich people to pretend they're not doing a bad thing, but why not AT THE LEAST choose to eat that or not eat meat?

[merlincorey]

> When I have the option of choosing meat from a cow raised and slaughtered ethically I'll take that one every time, but usually I have no idea of the provenance of a particular hamburger patty and that likely does wonders for my peace of mind.

Kobe and Wagyu beef are raised happily and slaughtered ethically in order to be the quality that they are, in theory.

I believe economics certainly plays a role here.

A pound of Wagyu Chuck costs $160 at a nearby grocery store but I can get Prime Chuck from the local big chain grocery store for just $12 (a 13x price difference).

[rs999gti]

> There are billions/trillions of these creatures who are eaten alive every year in the wild

Don't forget the thousands/millions of bugs, small mammals, birds, and reptiles that are killed as part of vegetable and fruit agriculture.

[TheNewsIsHere]

The Good Place captured this problem very well.

For a long time I’ve wrestled with a deep-seated but welcome, albeit persistent, unease with food.

As a species we have and continue to inflict dramatic suffering and harm upon the non-human species on our planet. We do this variably to our own enrichment, or sometimes entertainment, but a lot of it is also to our own long-term detriment.

Even making the “good choice” comes with “bad points”. I tend not to go to seafood restaurants because I don’t want to give them money. I accept an invitation to Red Lobster because a family member wants to get a bite. I order a salad, horrified by my surroundings, and find it has shrimp in it.

I love the taste of shrimp, but I no longer eat it because I don’t know how it was handled. Humanely? Did the shrimp this shrimp came from suffer eyestalk ablation? I don’t know.

So I could pick it off to the side and waste it, or I could eat it so it didn’t die in vein.

[xdennis]

> For us, it's a choice.

Yes, it's your choice, and your choice to consider it "cruel". Don't force your choices onto others.

[agalunar]

This doesn't make sense to me; it sounds like you're suggesting I can't make my own moral judgment regarding your actions – that if you think what you're doing is okay, I have to think it's okay too.

Even if morality is only about answering the question, "how should I conduct myself", and not directly about how anyone else should conduct themselves, if one of my values is alleviating the suffering of others, I will need to recognize when other feeling things are being hurt. If you're the one causing the hurt, I suppose you could say that I'm not making a "moral judgment" about your actions (but rather some other kind of assessment), but regardless I will feel a duty to intervene.

[burnished]

Its a little hypocritical of you to try and force this perspective on others - if this is how you feel shouldnt you simply keep quiet and make your own decisions, to avoid forcing your choices onto others?

[distrill]

good lord, people are discussing their ethical considerations for making their own choices, nobody is forcing you to do anything. why is this reaction so immediate in literally every discussion about anything ever

[autoexec]

I think that, apart from psychopaths, very few people wouldn't consider torturing an animal to be "cruel". There are extreme circumstances which may justify being cruel in that way, but making a youtube video isn't one of them.