[afavour]

I’ve also been a Redditor for well over a decade. While I miss the days when it was a smaller niche site (before the Digg implosion it was basically a nerdier, smaller Digg) I still use and enjoy the site plenty today.

I have never been accused of being a racist transphobe whatever, if that’s your number one issue with the site maybe some inward reflection is in order? Just don’t get involved in political flamewars, they serve absolutely no purpose for anyone involved.

[psygn89]

I haven't been called that either, but I know what he means... many of Reddit's bigger community comment section basically seems to devolve into politics or racial issues even if it was a photo of a cute kitten. Often you'll basically see the comment section locked after it runs that course. The old reddit wasn't like that unless you visited political subreddits.

[babypuncher]

I think it's a product of some reddit communities becoming too big to effectively moderate.

I mostly stick with smaller, non-default subs and don't really run into this problem anymore.

[paulddraper]

Yes, smaller subs do not have this issue.

[paisawalla]

> I have never been accused of being a racist transphobe whatever, if that’s your number one issue with the site maybe some inward reflection is in order

Perhaps you simply haven't encountered the kind of person who, at the vaguest sense of an opportunity to claim the title of Most Moral Person, will leap up to condescend you based on the most uncharitable and motivated reading of your words.

[mynameisvlad]

If one person calls you an asshole, then they might be an asshole. If everyone calls you an asshole, then some inward reflection is in order because you're likely coming off as an asshole.

If it happens again and again, in different circles with different people, like GP indicates happens, then maybe, just maybe it's not everyone else that's the problem.

[raxxorraxor]

That is not really good advice. There are frequent mobs that believe others to be assholes. For that matter, I believe you almost always qualify for that if you form that strong opinions about someone from internet comments because that directly reflects on your narrow perspective and you willingness to act on insufficient information.

If I think AITA subs and similar communities really aren't very tolerant people at all. Sure, there are people that like to provoke, but I think some subs are just some form of merger of similar people believing themselves to be oh so generous in their judgmentality but in reality are pretty toxic by almost all standards.

[mynameisvlad]

It’s almost as if I said

> in different circles with different people, like GP indicates happens

But you just chose to ignore it and soldier on with your rambling diatribe.

If people in completely different subs like StarTrek and CanadaCoronavirus and god knows how many others all say someone is an asshole, then the person is just a fucking asshole. That’s all there is to it.

It’s not some big conspiracy caused by “merging of subs” or whatever other BS you and your friends come up with to justify your shitty behavior.

Considering this thread is no longer on the front page and you somehow chose to reply to all my comments and their sibling threads in here, I’m just going to go on a limb to say you’re probably a sock puppet for someone else here. Next time, just use your main account.

[raxxorraxor]

Oh, that was always you. Didn't notice. You seem to be quite angry about it.

[nailer]

I feel the implication is it only happens on Reddit so therefore it’s Reddit that is out of touch.

[unsupp0rted]

Exactly. I’m not being called “an asshole”, even on Reddit: I’m being called racist, transphobic, homophobic, etc

And only on Reddit.

In real life, and in other online communities (e.g. I’m a member of a “DINK” Facebook group for people without kids), I haven’t had this problem.

I haven’t gotten into flame wars with ad-hominems in recent memory either.

People are a lot less eager to play the “you’re vaguely problematic” card outside Reddit.

[mynameisvlad]

https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/am-i-so-out-of-touch

Reddit is not one person, you understand that right?

If multiple people on different parts of Reddit are telling you you’re an asshole— something I explicitly called out— then Occam’s Razor says that you are, in fact, the asshole.

[nailer]

I think we both know that Reddit has a certain political viewpoint, so let’s not pretend that we don’t.

The meme certainly applies, but not in the way you think it does.

If it’s only Reddit that finds many people’s behaviour objectionable Occam’s Razor would determine that Reddit is the problem.

[mynameisvlad]

> I think we both know that Reddit has a certain political viewpoint, so let’s not pretend that we don’t.

Bullshit.

Reddit is made up of millions of people with different viewpoints. There are subreddits that are left leaning, centrist, right leaning, and everything in between. And many, many more which have no political viewpoint because they literally have nothing to do with politics.

To claim an entire user base has a “certain political viewpoint” is plainly ignoring the reality of the situation.

It certainly is a great strawman but it’s in no way shape or form representative of reality.

I’m going to ignore the rest of your comment because you clearly can’t conceptualize the basic idea that Reddit is not one mind. Come back to me when this most basic of concepts has sunk in and we can have an actual discussion rather than whatever this idiotic back and forth you’re insisting on is.

[paisawalla]

The underlying motivation in these sorts of exchanges is rarely a desire for a global increase of genuine self-examination, but more often to exploit an opportunity for ostentatious preening. We know this because your logic can be trivially inverted to point the mirror in the reverse direction. So, reflection being what it is, if self-examination were the true goal, one imagines that those advocating it would at least show first that they had done it themselves.

[mynameisvlad]

The underlying motivation is to have assholes take a closer look at themselves instead of continuously blaming those around them for what ultimately is the result of their own actions.

If this struck such a nerve with you, then you may want to take a step back and re-evaluate why you're so deeply triggered by people advocating for introspection instead of deflection.

It's pretty clear from your comment you won't, but that's a separate issue.

[paisawalla]

Have you considered examining why you feel the need to project false moral superiority onto, obliquely insult, and psychoanalyze strangers? Do you think this suggests a sober self-awareness and firm grounding of your principles -- qualities I'm sure you feel you possess and believe you're projecting?

[mynameisvlad]

Have you considered examining why you feel you need to use the most opaque and overly-elaborate way to say an incredibly simple concept as a way to “project false moral superiority onto [and] obliquely insult […] strangers?”

Projecting your obvious superiority complex onto others while at the same time accusing others of doing so is, quite frankly, hilarious.

Next time, just introspect instead of digging this idiotic hole further. It’s not really that hard to ask yourself “am I the asshole” and it’s quite obvious you’ve never done it in your life.

Either way, I’m done with whatever you want to call this obnoxious rambling of yours.

[raxxorraxor]

You just made the point of the previous poster and you judge quickly. Allegedly in the interest of others, but I believe you are fooling yourself.

[david38]

The old “if the issue doesn’t affect me, it’s probably something with you.”

[wlesieutre]

The person they're replying to was the one who said "every user" so I'm not going to fault them for saying "hasn't been my experience"

I've not run into that either and I've been on reddit since before digg v4

[unsupp0rted]

I got banned from /r/CanadaCoronavirus for saying at the time we didn't yet know how many doses and on what schedule of the vaccine would be needed.

Banned. That's anti-vaxx propaganda on my part, evidently.

I messaged the mods to explain that I was triple-vaxxed and what I said was not only factually correct, it wasn't even controversial.

The mods patiently replied that anti-vaxx trolls like me will be reported to reddit to have my entire account banned "for harassment" if I contact them again.

What inward reflection do I need? This is just one of myriad examples with mods who don't actually read or process the content about which they're banning people.

[strunz]

None of that sounds like you were called a "racist transphobe nazi homophobe" like you originally said. Funny how you picked an example of something to frame yourself as correct in the most "scientific" way possible instead.

[unsupp0rted]

I could have added antivaxx or generically “denying The Science” to my list of -ist terms, I suppose.

[btreecat]

That doesn't sound like the full story.

[brightball]

Based on my experience, that probably is the full story.

[unsupp0rted]

What else can I add? You've seen my interactions here.

Does it seem to you like the kind of person you’re interacting with is reasonable here but unreasonable to the point of group toxicity elsewhere? Or that I'm unreasonable here?

[dghlsakjg]

Yes.

Your initial comment here was unsupported by real world examples, and used a lot of rage-bait buzzwords.

When asked to put up a concrete example, no-one called you a fascist/nazi/transphobe in the example. They banned you for, according to you, "just asking questions" on a country specific coronavirus subreddit.

Your tone comes off as "I'm right, they're wrong. I'm the victim here!"

[jboy55]

"Just asking questions" is the biggest red flag of ill intent, its not doubt I would ban someone for resorting to that. Especially if we look at the facts given in the comment.

" saying at the time we didn't yet know how many doses and on what schedule of the vaccine would be needed."

"I messaged the mods to explain that I was triple-vaxxed "

So we can infer from this post that this happened sometime after Aug 2021. So someone went into the Canada Coronavirus group, a group where posts seem to get tens of comments, and brought up completely innocently, "how we don't know how many doses" we need. To make a broader point on what... could it have been, "how we shouldn't have a mandate?"

Perhaps this was closer to Feb/2022 where the Trucker protest was raging across Canada. Of course, the mods may not want a big flamewar over mandates in their group that seems like a niche information aggregation sub.

[mistermann]

> "Just asking questions" is the biggest red flag of ill intent

I consider the playing of the accusation of the JAQ wildcard (an immediate victory in the minds of some subsets of observers) to be a much more dangerous (often literally unrealizeable) cultural norm, it is a go to staple technique in any delusional internet rhetorician's toolkit.

[unsupp0rted]

It would be doubly damning if GP hadn't made up the "just asking questions" quote as if I had said or implied it. Or if you hadn't made up the "how we shouldn't have a mandate?" quote as if I had commented in either direction on that.

[jnwatson]

The full story is that this was the 100th similar interaction the mod had that week and they were short on patience.

[josefx]

Got praised on one sub for reporting a bot and banned from another for it (throwing around baseless accusations!!).

Some mods have a hair trigger on that ban hammer.

[spookthesunset]

> That doesn't sound like the full story.

Nope. That is it. Many, many subs would outright ban you if you dared to question the narrative or posted to a "misinformation" subreddit like /r/lockdownskepticism. It was pathetic, honestly. God forbid anybody disagree with what society chose to do with covid....

[mvdtnz]

Same thing was happening in the New Zealand for some time.

[afavour]

Yeah, that example does sound bad. In the ideal world I’d be curious to hear the mod’s perspective: it’s possible to be perceived as a troll even when you’re stating true facts, depending on context and tone.

That’s kind of what I mean about inward reflection. If you find yourself on the receiving end of modding after stating entirely true and relevant facts… yes, maybe the mods are out of control. But maybe the impression you’re giving off while stating truth still leaves a sour taste. If you find yourself fielding accusations of being antivaxx and being racist and being a transphobe, etc etc, all in different subs with different mods then there’s only a few commonalities left. I’m not saying you did deserve any of this, I don’t have the evidence to, just that it’s something worth pondering.

[unsupp0rted]

The commonality could be that I am all those things, or the commonality could be that Reddit is pathologically sensitive to all those things.

My claim is the latter: it's a Reddit auto-immune disease that was hardly present in the early days and is now impossible to miss after years of gradual decline.

[HelloMcFly]

Occam's Razor suggests the former. Here is a perfunctory "I don't know you" - nothing below may be applicable.

There are power-hungry mods, no doubt. They can be politically oriented in either direction, or sometimes just like to be the monarch. But I've been around reddit for over 15 years now, and in my view if you're regularly being accused of being toxic, I'm inclined to believe that you're the cause. And it may not be due to the factual nature of your posts, but the manner in which you share them.

Again, I don't know you, and my experience certainly can't generalize to everyone else. I was a mod for about six months, hated it, but that gave me all the insight I need into how dishonest (or possibly not at all self-aware) people can be when recounting how they were "wronged."

[unsupp0rted]

To me Occam's Razor suggests that any giant social network inevitably declines into group-think and mod fiefdoms, barring an active mitigation strategy.

This is the very basis of why HN rules and moderation are structured the way they are: to actively discourage such an anticipated decline.

If a person seems reasonable and thoughtful on one anonymous forum, Occam's Razor suggests they are similarly thoughtful in another anonymous forum.

[HelloMcFly]

> To me Occam's Razor suggests that any giant social network inevitably declines into group-think and mod fiefdoms, barring an active mitigation strategy.

And I would argue any giant social network also inevitably declines into troll behavior and bad-faith brigading without active mitigation strategies. It is hard to balance these things.

I certainly think "I'm routinely regarded as an a-hole because I act like one" to be much more plausible than "I'm routinely regarded as an a-hole because this giant social network has a metaphorical auto-immune disease that results in me experiencing this routinely."

[mistermann]

> But I've been around reddit for over 15 years now, and in my view if you're regularly being accused of being toxic, I'm inclined to believe that you're the cause. And it may not be due to the factual nature of your posts, but the manner in which you share them.

Don't forget the sub-perceptual cultural axioms of the era the Event occurred in within Time.

[Takennickname]

My friend. Of course you don't know what he is talking about. When you ask a fish what is water? It doesn't know. It was surrounded by it it's whole life.

When you ask a reddit mod what is bias? It doesn't know. It was surrounded by it its whole life.