[ajkjk]

What? Millions of people have personal laptops that are M1+ Macbooks. For people who can afford it and aren't Linux people, why would you buy anything else?

(well some people have issues with buying things from Apple and I don't blame them but Microsoft is busy making Windows as unappealing as possible so Apple wins for me)

[Oddskar]

Do you really need me to spell it out for you?

  * Can't afford it
  * Don't like MacOS
  * Don't like the hardware
  * Want a repairable device
  * Want a upgradeable device

Etc, etc. Plenty of reasons.

[elzbardico]

Have lots of layers, accountants, execs, and a few surgeons in the extended family, especially on my wife's side. Most of them use Macs as their personal computers, and some of them have already upgraded to M1 and M2 mac pros.

Lot's rich people out there, bro. Some of them probably suffered to adapt to Mac OS after years of using Windows, but since every new version of Windows is now a different OS from the UX perspective, they all adapted themselves to Mac OS, because they wouldn't want to be seen in an airport lounge or an expensive coffee answering their emails in plastic Samsung book.

Also, most people never upgraded their laptops, this is simply not an important selling point, and even less in the premium segment. Repairability? From the user's perspective, It is repairable, they have Apple Care, and they drop their broken laptop in a counter, and sometime later they collect a functioning laptop. And why they wouldn't like the hardware? The CPU is fast, it hardly ever heats enough to spin the fans, the screen is great, the keyboard now is good enough, and the touchpad is still probably the best one on the market.

Your plenty of reasons don't seem very solid to me.

[Oddskar]

So you're surrounded by rich people, and thus my reasons don't seem to apply? OK.

[ajkjk]

This whole thread is a disagreement to

> Yeah but most people aren't paying for those: their employers are.

which is wrong, and you seemed to not be aware of that. Your reasons are all arguments why _some_ people don't buy them, and they're obviously correct, but lots of people also do buy them.

[ajkjk]

Er. I didn't try to argue everyone buys one. Just that 'most are bought by employers', as though people won't pay for them themselves, is obviously silly .

[theshrike79]

When do you think we'll get the first repairable and upgradable VR headset?

[the_mar]

Who doesn’t like macos? Like it is objectively better than windows, and is able to actually work decently without set up pain (like linux)

Who doesn’t like the hardware? Now that the butterfly keyboard and dongles are gone, what is there to hate?

What is unrepairable about macbooks? It’s not an iphone, i ve replaced hard drives, fans and other components on a macbook countless times.

Who really wants an upgradable laptop? I’d give you desktop perhaps, but with laptops i struggle to see the usecase

The things you don’t actually mention, that certain software doesn’t run on mac (ironically used by mechies and industrial designers).

[Oddskar]

I like Apple. I'm find this new release quite cool. But you fanboys are a bit much. Sigh.. guess I'm going to do this.

> Who doesn’t like macos? Like it is objectively better than windows, and is able to actually work decently without set up pain (like linux)

Not really objectively better any more, no. With WSL2 developing on Windows is actually pretty darn great. It's the best of both worlds: first party support of most applications and devices that I care about, and a really good OS for development.

> Who doesn’t like the hardware?

Overall Macbooks are almost unbeatable with e.g. the screens or sound for instance. But I still find the port selection to be baffling. It's been many, many years since the release of USB-C and I still need USB-A ports.

I also really do not like the sharp edges on the new Macbooks. They're visually appealing, sure. But if I'm on a train and they're cutting into my wrists it's not great.

> What is unrepairable about macbooks? It’s not an iphone, i ve replaced hard drives, fans and other components on a macbook countless times.

Aha, please try "replacing your hard drive" in your new Macbook.

Also the attitude and track record of Apples behavior towards repair shops is abysmal.

> Who really wants an upgradable laptop? I’d give you desktop perhaps, but with laptops i struggle to see the usecase

You just said you have "replaced hard drives, fans and other components on a macbook countless times" so I struggle a bit with this one.

In general it's a good idea to make devices last longer. Y'know, with the planet being almost being on fire since we're over-consuming? No?

[the_mar]

I promise i am not an apple fangirl. I am trying to be objective here.

I’m not claiming that windows is somehow “unusable”. Obvs not. But I can’t think of any beef anyone can have with mac os except that some software doesn’t run on it. But I don’t think this falls under the umbrella of “don’t like the os”.

Re: hardware. Again objectively apple has the nicest hardware. That doesn’t mean “perfect” for every user scenario, but I just can’t imagine someone who objectively prefers a chromebook to a macboo because of hardware. I could imagine that during the butterfly keyboard era though.

Re: repairability. You got me there i have not replaced shit in my new laptop. But i have replaced the hard drive and the screen housing on my 2015 macbook it was no more difficult than any ikea assembly.

My 2015 macbook still works totally fine with almost daily use. I recently donated my 2009 imac and it’s probably at the point when it’s unacceptable for any kind of professional use. But in all seriousness how long do you expect a computer to last? I don’t know the answer to that tbh, but I do think that macs are better in terms of longevity than other hardware

[AdamN]

I believe all Macs are fully recyclable with very little waste in the process. Repairability comes at a cost that most customers don't want to pay (any one of: more $$, heavier, thicker, more prone to breakage, etc...). In the end these are devices that cost about the same as a couch, last a few years, and then are meant to be recycled for raw materials that go back into a more efficient device.

[coffeemug]

I use Windows daily for work, and it's like going back in time 20 years. Just look at the quality of icons.

[mtlmtlmtlmtl]

I don't like Macos. Windows without games and Linux without deep customisation, variety of choice, and visibility. It's not bad, just useless to me. It only runs well on very specific, overpriced, unrepairable hardware too. Lame.

The hardware is okay, but overrated, there are far sturdier laptops, especially for protecting the display.

The only macbook I ever had had soldered on RAM. Even the PS4 has a replaceable HDD. Being able to replace the storage is not impressive, it's table stakes. I want a laptop for which every sub-board is replacable(without soldering or a heat gun) so I can repair it indefinitely. Apple also have more expensive parts. This counts as less repairability to me.

I want an upgradable laptop because I like laptops. And I like fast laptops even more. Upgrading the laptop instead of replacing it means less money spent on parts I don't need to replace, meaning I can either save money or spend more on performance.

[the_mar]

I suppose what is the difference between trading in a laptop for an upgrade vs doing it yourself. The number of people willing and able to replace parts on their computers gotta be not that large.

The upgradability comes with trade offs, in reliability, price, size and weight.

I totally understand how in a perfect world i could just swap parts on my macbook, but if it makes it twice as thick and heavy, with shitty plastic panels everywhere I don’t think I want it all that much

[mtlmtlmtlmtl]

Doesn't matter whether you do it yourself or turn it in for repair. If it's harder to repair on your own, it's gonna be way more expensive to do through a shop too. Apple are notorious for designing their laptops in a way that one component dying means the whole board must be replaced.

And yes, it's possible to design repairable laptops without making them "twice as thick and heavy, with shitty plastic panels everywhere". This is a made up problem.

If apple are so much better at "design" than everyone else, why are they so much worse at repairability? Is it too hard for Apple? Is that really your argument?

[ztrww]

> Who doesn’t like macos?

It’s buggy AF and Apple is dumbing down the UX/UI every year and customization options are almost non existent.

Also compared to Windows multi-display support is thrash, no window snapping (?!) and Windows seems to be generally more stable.

[the_mar]

Name me a piece of software that ain’t buggy, I’ll wait.

I work on both windows and macos. I haven’t seen the screen of death on a mac in literal years, but the windows laptop does it weekly.

I’m by no means saying that macos is perfect software. It took apple literal years to fix the airdrop for example. But i would not say it’s more buggy than windows or linux.

[sensanaty]

Mac/MacOS is piping hot garbage, I have one through work and I only ever use it as a 4th screen (aka Slack and Email machine) to the left of my actual work setup, since the thing shits itself whenever you try working with more than a single extra screen connected.

When forced to use it due to being in office or whatever I just ssh into my home setup & control it through Parsec, every time I have to actually use the thing I get the urge to toss it out of a window

[matsemann]

I hate MacOS. I've used it as my daily OS for over three years, and never "grew to like it" (as everyone said, "just give it time"). I feel like a kid when using it, everything is hidden away to look fancy instead of usable.

The hardware is okay, I guess. I envy the M1 chips. But I don't like the keyboard layout (even after 3 years it feels off..), or how they've for years not have included necessary ports so it's a dongle-show. I also don't like the value per dollar of their hardware. If my employer pays it's fine, but I wouldn't pay the Apple tax myself.

I'm not here to start a flame war. Just to point out that you speak as if your preferences are a global truth, but plenty disagree.

[the_mar]

I mean, yeah if you come to any os with an explanation that it works exactly the same as other os you are going to have a bad time.

I use windows for CAD work and macos for everything else and the switching is annoying for sure.

In terms of functionality (given you actually take time to learn the UI paradigms) neither windows or mac are inferior. You can do all the same things on both. So it all really comes down to familiarity such as “i hate using cmd key instead of ctrl”.

I don’t disagree with people saying “i am more used to windows” - it is true. But there is nothing about macos that is worth not liking.

[andromeduck]

What is being hidden?

[_gabe_]

Try opening finder and going to your home directory. Where is it? Heck if I know.

It's ridiculous that I couldn't right-click, click a folder hierarchy, search, or anything! No visible indicators, no hints, no way at all to just get to your dang home directory. I had to Google it and apparently the magic incantation is Cmd+Up. I quickly pinned it to my favorites so I don't lose my home directory again. Ridiculous.

For all of windows pain points, of which there are many, at least I can click "My Computer" and actually see the contents of my computer. Even Linux (Ubuntu) doesn't hide it from you.

[andromeduck]

Yeah but the vast majority of people don't actually use home dir directly and the people who do also know enough to enable it in finder options, search for it using help or the help search soertcut, bookmark or search for it using spotlight.

Spotlight (cmd space) also means you pretty much never have to navigate to a file/folder.

Fyi home is cmd + shift + h which you can find in the go menu or by search for home in the help menu.

[elzbardico]

Mac OS is a bit old, from a time when menus ruled supreme in GUI applications. You can find most of that stuff in the menu.

[BYazfVCcq]

Finder > View > Show Path Bar

After that navigating folder hierarchies gets way easier.

[ewoodrich]

Windows 11 remembers my window positions. MacOS forgets my monitor configuration and also requires resetting my dock weekly for some reason to recognize my monitors.

[tesin]

Yeah, I loathe it. I use Linux (of all stripes), Windows, android etc. So it's not brand loyalty. The UX is trash.

[sureglymop]

Consider that there are also many people who won't even consider that. I'm saying having that opinion or knowing those differences about operating system and devices is already a specific somewhat invested subset of people. Many people literally only know windows and office and haven't even used a Mac.

[mft_]

A laptop that can’t be upgraded likely also can’t be fixed by the user. I’d like a realistically user-fixable laptop - especially as I (unfortunately) bought a 2017 MB Pro which has had a screen failure, a prematurely dying battery, and the well-known butterfly keyboard issues.

[the_mar]

The dongle era macbooks are trash. I give you that.

[dboreham]

Raising my hand because I detest macos.

[sportslife]

I can't get over how badly MacOS works with external monitors; I have a fiddly 5ish minute Mac boot cycle process somedays because there it just refuses to output anything.

[KerrAvon]

FWIW, that's really not the usual macOS experience with external monitors, and you should try doing standard connectivity troubleshooting like replacing the cable, etc.

I've been using multiple monitors (more than 1 simultaneously) with Macs forever; the experience has gotten smoother with the Apple Silicon Macs, but it worked OK on Intel, and PowerPC before that, and the old classic Macs before that.

[dilyevsky]

Something is wrong with your monitor or your mac port or hopefully the cable. My m1 pro and air work perfectly with lg 5k display

[zebnyc]

The pace of renewal / refurbishment for work related and personal may not have the same frequency for most folks. Work laptops updated every 3 years approximately (at least in tech). Personal use may be 5-12 years. I bought a Macbook Pro in 2012 for myself. The next personal purchase I made was 2022 when I bought the mac mini. For everything else I used the computer which was given to me at work.

[swores]

Depends very much on the person and the company, I've known many people in similar situations as you, but also many people (in business, rarely roles like developers) stuck on old, slow work laptops - even managers in companies like Dell - while having shiny new personal devices they'd bought themselves (and would, if their company allowed them, use those for work where possible - ofc companies like Dell that's a no-go, but many smaller companies are happy when their employees work on their own more expensive and more productive computer).

[ris58h]

> Millions of people have personal laptops that are M1+ Macbooks

Yeah, but we are talking about Pros, not Airs.

[ajkjk]

Yeah people buy those too. Do you think they don't?

When my current MBP dies, I'll be buying the one with the latest chip on the market (although admittedly a lower spec version than I would presumably get from work --- but that's just because I'm not doing planning on doing huge compilations or video editing on it).