[alehlopeh]

What’s with the scare quotes around communist? Sure they have a lot of doctors. And how many of those doctors are allowed to do business as a private practice? Or how many would be allowed to change careers if they wanted to? How many are allowed to spend their income at fancy places, where the currency they get paid in isn’t even accepted? Hate to break it to you, but “your” worldview is incredibly, laughably, misinformed.

[the_mar]

I’m not a fan of communism, but your worldview about it is also misinformed. People are allowed to change careers under communism: source I was born in USSR, my mother had many careers in the 70s and 80s.

I’d give you the inability to work for a private practice, that is true, but I am not entirely convinced it’s all that beneficial to society.

Lastly, Cuba can have some things better than the US, it doesn’t necessarily mean communism is a superior type of system. It just means that even a broken clock can show the right time

[bruce511]

Again, it's best not to align planning to political methodologies. Cuba has success stories. That isn't a vote for communism.

Equally, another "communist" state (China) is doing very well and while there is a lot of planning there, there is also a lot of free-market. Again, not a vote for communism.

I use communist in quotes here because Chinese communism is different to communism as practiced in the USSR. Just like capitalism is different in the US compared to say Switzerland.

There are (literally) hundreds of political systems, and we find it helpful to lump them together under broad names, but that can lead to a misunderstanding of the actual system.

Incidentally some planning is necessary- but it remains hard.

Cuba planned for, and got, a fantastic heath system built around primary health care. Cuban doctors are well respected, and are exported all over the world.

Cuba also got a lot wrong, and saying they got something right is not an endorsement of all ideas Cuban.

[ch4s3]

Cuba actually has a terrible health system that lacks even basic medical supplies like aspirin and antibiotics[1]. The state department and in the past MSF have called their medical missions modern day slavery[2][3]. There are also a lot of questions about the quality of Cuban medical training[4].

[1]https://cuba.miami.edu/business-economy/a-close-look-at-cuba...

[2]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cuba-trafficking/u-s-...

[3] https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/07/23/cuba-repressive-rules-do...

[4] https://bmcmededuc.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12909...

[Tanjreeve]

The first three articles are various flavours of FUD and vague assertions of coercion of the usual kind of "flood the field" BS everyone is used to from MSM.

The fourth link you provided "asks questions" but then the actual conclusion is that their trainings fine and people are spouting FUD and they'll need some extra focus on country specific problems.

""" Results South African students trained in Cuba have had beneficial experiences which orientate them towards primary health care and prevention. Their subsequent training in South Africa is intended to fill skill gaps related to TB, HIV and major trauma. However this training is ad hoc and variable in duration and demoralizing for some students. Cuban-trained students have stronger aspirations than those trained in South Africa to work in rural and underserved communities from which many of them are drawn.

Conclusion Attempts to assimilate returning Cuban-trained students will require a reframing of the current negative narrative by focusing on positive aspects of their training, orientation towards primary care and public health, and their aspirations to work in rural and under-served urban areas. Cuban-trained doctors could be part of the solution to South Africa’s health workforce problems. """

[ch4s3]

Really because the Cuban state bio pharmaceutical industry items at least a 40% shortage in medical supplies[1](I hope you read Spanish). Here’s another from Univision[2]. I could dig through the state news and find where they say the same thing but I have limited patience for stalinist ramblings.

As for the training, I did only cite one study. But I know doctors who have worked along side Cuban doctors in Africa through MSF, and they’re according to multiple people I’ve spoken with very poorly trained. The medical missions are also as I pointed out basically slavery.

[1] https://diariodecuba.com/cuba/1658314405_41049.html

[2] https://www.univision.com/amp/local/miami-wltv/falta-medicam...

[Tanjreeve]

The shortage of medical supplies is a problem created by the US which is then recycled into evidence of medical failure which is quite a nice little Gordian knot.

>As for the training, I did only cite one study. But I know doctors who have worked along side Cuban doctors in Africa through MSF, and they’re according to multiple people I’ve spoken with very poorly trained. The medical missions are also as I pointed out basically slavery.

I'll be honest the corporate media has played so fast and loose with information the last few years so they don't get the benefit of the doubt and I'm aware of a fair few countries with various flavours of regimes to stop doctors and/or graduates emigrating instantly with their expensive training so I wouldnt know enough to judge on "slavery". I'd need more context and another viewpoint to form an opinion.

[ch4s3]

It is categorically not a problem created by the US. Cuba was a satrap of the USSR that never developed any local economic or agricultural capacity. This is despite receiving free oil, machinery, training and fertilizer from the USSR and later free oil from Venezuela. Cuba still has the lowest agricultural output in the Caribbean by miles, clearly this is a result of communist economic policies. One only needs to look to Deng’s agricultural reforms in 1980s China to see this.

The embargo is no excuse. Cuba’s largest trading partner is Spain and they could get any European good or equipment they wanted if they had anything worth exporting for foreign currency. Cuba receives nearly a billion dollars a year in remittances from Cubans in the US alone, yet they are unable to do anything to unlock the potential of that inflow because they’re hung up on broken stalinist policies.

I sent you several Spanish language articles on the topic published outside of the US, this isn’t a “corporate media” narrative. The Cuban government is just terrible. If you can’t read Spanish that isn’t my fault. I know tons of Cubans, including Cuban leftists, and I read Spanish. I’m pretty well informed here and not just buying a narrative.

Human Rights Watch calls the medical mission slavery. They don’t allow the doctors to communicate with family, take their passports, take their wages, often send them into conflict zones, threaten their families, and on and on.

[whitemary]

According to a Marxist definition of communism (classless society) neither Cuba or the Soviet Union are or were communist.

[NemoNobody]

Well, you're right but it's think that despite the definition Marx coined, or the government he imagined, Communism has evolved and so has the definition.

The countries that tried Communism did so differently but with many similarities and all still had/have social classes.

A classless society only works theoretically - those that have tried to implement such societal changes have been unable to realize that goal practically.

Practical application matters most.

It may not be so much that modern Communists have failed to implement Marxist government but rather that Marx failed by focusing so solely on social class.

Inequality is the problem - it eats away at a society and its people. True equality is impossible and honestly not even desirable. Absolute equality doesn't mesh well with individuality.

I don't need to own the same things that everyone else does, live in the same size house or drive comparable cars - it's OK that people have nicer things than I do. It's not OK that everyone I know works hard their entire lives and others don't have too.

It's not OK that I know several people that have died bc they were avoiding medical care they knew they needed due to the expense.

It's not OK that everyone I talk to under 25 all seem to want to skip college and go work wherever - they are not lazy, they are certain that our future is uncertain. Why have goals that can't be reached?

I'm fine with classes as long as all classes have the same MINIMUM quality of life. Society should never limit the individual but should rather empower them to live well, as such, the only limits on maximum wealth I would impose would come after several billions have been added to an account - it does the society that generated that wealth no good if it simply sits an account and gets bigger.

Gates, Zuck, Mush, Bezos and other super rich are examples of our societal failure to regulate OUR economy well enough to prevent the greediest of us all from taking all of OUR collective wealth.

This is what Marx missed. This is why his definition/ideology didn't work out - also why so many have failed.

There will always be owners and workers, rich and poor, good and bad people - this is why government exists. How can a government eliminate the reason it exists?

To be frank, it was kinda stupid to think that paying everyone the same, trying to treat everyone the same, taking away ownership and attempting to equalize access to possessions would transform society into a paradise.

tl;dr: The definition of Communism has changed since Marx because everyone that tried Marx failed miserably and had to make due - today Communism is what they are doing now and isn't at all like Marx proposed.