[bandrami]

Canada has a more comprehensive welfare state than the US and a higher percentage of the population are immigrants than in the US. So there may at some point be a required tradeoff but the US isn't there yet.

What Canada doesn't have is a "homelessness-industrial complex" of NGOs and nonprofits that soak up billions of dollars in public money without actually providing significant housing for homeless people: instead, the government just does it.

[screye]

Canada has exceptional control of its borders thanks to a big USA absorbing low-skill labor shocks. The Canadian immigration system is based on points, which also means that they can easily control what kind of immigrants that are able to move here.

Lastly, Canada has a worse housing crisis than the US right now and its healthcare system woes are well documented. I question your claim of Canada's welfare state stability and its housing affordability.

That being said:

> Canada doesn't have is a "homelessness-industrial complex" of NGOs and nonprofits

You are right on that.

[fwungy]

It's based on points, but certain groups like refugees and family of immigrants take high priority.

Compared to previous years. The 2022–2024 Immigration Levels Plan continues to build on the 2021–2023 Immigration Levels Plan with higher admissions targets to address pandemic related shortfalls. As outlined in the 2022–2024 Immigration Levels Plan, Canada aims to welcome from 360,000 to 445,000 new permanent residents in 2022, from 380,000 to 465,000 in 2023, and 390,000 to 475,000 in 2024. The 2022–2024 Immigration Levels Plan includes targets that build on the ambitious targets set in previous years. In 2022–23, it is anticipated that as border restrictions gradually ease and travel levels regain momentum, clients residing overseas will increasingly be able to land in Canada and be processed, which will support efforts to meet the objectives of the 2022–2024 Immigration Levels Plan. Furthermore, the Department’s efforts to reduce overall inventories of applications, including paper-based permanent resident inventories, as well as further digitization of services, will contribute to achieving the ambitious levels targets set out in the 2022–2024 Immigration Levels Plan. The Department will continue to monitor immigration levels and work with other federal departments and agencies to continue protecting the health and safety of Canadians as newcomers are welcomed to Canada.

Very interesting document.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/co...

[bandrami]

I'd agree about border control with a caveat: the real issue isn't entrance control (that's not really even noise in the overall picture) but the fact that the US doesn't track exits except for certain classes of non tourist visas.

Canada can tell you right now who entered on a tourist visa and hasn't left; the US lacks that ability because we refuse to implement universal exit controls.

[fwungy]

Housing prices in Canada are ridiculously high now and locals cannot afford to get into the housing market in major cities.

Canada has started to ban outside investors from buying homes in certain areas[0].

Canada is also experiencing record high inflation[1].

Low skilled immigrants require major government assistance. The government will simply print money to handle their housing and services as needed. Trudeau is not popular, and most Canadians are not happy with the direction of the government, but if you're a poor immigrant it's an amazing deal if you can get there.

[0] https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/01/business/canada-bans-home-pur...

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/22/canada-inflation-rises-to-ne...

[dv_dt]

The housing prices have little to do with immigration and everything to do with nimbyism, bad zoning practices, and indirectly, wealth inequality (which ends up being pressure for a capital biased landlord nimbyism in real estate)

[RetpolineDrama]

>Canada has a more comprehensive welfare state than the US and a higher percentage of the population are immigrants than in the US

Canada is a joke of a country and basically a vassal state of the United States, they couldn't even shoot down a balloon over their own territory without US F-22's from Alaska.

Talking about them and how they spend their money/the outcomes they get is like discussing the "rich" 35 year old who has a nice car and big TV living with his parents (no rent, food, healthcare costs etc)

You can't ignore these realities and then pretend that the current state of Canada is replicable in other places, as if it was solely the result of policy.

[bandrami]

So we agree Canada has both a strong welfare state and high immigration levels?

[nonethewiser]

Canada is more on a “pull” system with immigration. They pick and choose who and how many they want.

Regardless, when he says you cant have both he clearly means its not sustainable. Not that its literally impossible to hold both positions at some moment in time.

[bandrami]

The US is the largest "pull" immigration attractor by raw numbers.

> he clearly means its not sustainable

It's an interesting theory, but it would take arguing for. Keep in mind I'm in the "one billion Americans" club.

[fwungy]

Sure, but let's make sure we can feed and house everyone, and most importantly that oppressed populations in the US are not backstabbed with the needs of new immigrants taking precedent. It is not ethical to ask African Americans and others to wait more generations for justice.

[bandrami]

A Bengali immigrant got Ella Fitzgerald her first singing gig. The pie grows as you add more people.