[steveBK123]

Exactly. And even then.. We had a consulting company come in and do an entire paid discovery & project planning phase. They came back with a proposal for phase 1, which they overran by 100%.

The entire project ended in acrimony since it was a statement of work, not time & materials, so at some point they are calculating how much of a loss the project is causing them to incur.

Change requests, threats of litigation, meticulous reading of specs to see what we could try to wring out of them let us with a product that never went to production.