[skwb]

I live in the Seattle area now, and I find it hilarious that the public transportation infrastructure around Climate Pledge Arena (which Amazon bought the naming rights for) is horrendously bad. My wife and I looked into taking the subway + somehow transferring to the monorail, only to see that service was super limited by the time the concert finished.

We end up parking nearby since it's cheaper/easier to do so. Completely the worst set of incentives.

[lchengify]

I live in the area. Theoretically the West Seattle / Ballard link extensions will include stops at Seattle Center (park between the Space Needle and Climate Pledge Arena).

Shovels in the ground 2026, ETA 2037.

[1] https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/west-seattle-b...

[2] https://www.soundtransit.org/system-expansion/west-seattle-b...

[hackernewds]

That ETA is hilarious. Hope we have a planet worth redemption by the

[dag11]

We get quarterly pamphlets in the mail by Sound Transit detailing the latest updates on the subway construction projects and reading these pamphlets is one of the few moments where I really confront the concept of mortality. The years annotated on certain lines opening stretch into the mid 2040s!

I'm a huge supporter of rapid transit in our area and it just breaks my heart to see our (best-case) pace of construction, especially when I go and look at European and Asian rapid transit projects.

[culturestate]

> it just breaks my heart to see our (best-case) pace of construction, especially when I go and look at European and Asian rapid transit projects.

It's not a strictly apples-to-apples comparison, but the Circle Line on the Singapore MRT was approved in 1998, broke ground in 2002, partially opened in 2011, and is scheduled for completion in 2026.

Unless you have the freedom to make up the rules as you go along, as sometimes happens with e.g. China's metro and rail expansion, this stuff always takes time.

[noobermin]

Just to add insult to injury here, the circle line is fully operational as a semi circle, it just is not a full loop yet. That's all that's meant by completetion here, so yes, we have a mostly new line in a little under 15 years in sg for that.

[WalterBright]

Construction crews nearby spent 3 years redoing a 2 mile stretch of 2 lane road. 3 years of detours and one lane with flaggers. Now that it's done, it's still 2 lanes.

It boggles the mind.

[badwolf]

unfortunately NIMBY's gonna NIMBY. There's currently a petition going around to block BRT because it would take away... a lane of parking and "ruin small businesses."

Another reason for slow progress in Seattle, as I understand, is funding delays - segments can't begin until certain funds have matured at certain specified years.

[rtpg]

Seattle should be ashamed at giving themselves 10 years just for planning + design. This isn't the linear shinkansen, you're not even crossing state lines! It is a train. We know how to do this.

There are obviously considerations to optimise for but how do you need 5 years for planning, _then another 5 years for design_?

[rcme]

Modern civil engineering is extremely inefficient. In a software system, for instance, you design largely by “instinct.” You’re given a problem, you consider a the pros and cons of a few possible solutions, and then commit to one based on these considerations. Civil engineering doesn’t work like that. For something like a road or a railway, they’ll split it into pieces and then consider every possible way of construction along each segment, including studying things like environmental impact. It takes a ridiculous amount of time and effort. Part of the reason for this is so that when people sue to block construction they can say they considered all the other alternatives.

[panda888888]

I agree that they should do it more quickly, but they aren't just building this line, they're building light rail lines throughout all of Seattle and the suburbs. There's a giant master plan that goes 25+ years all the way out to 2050ish.

[cornercasechase]

It’s been a lot longer than 10 years. The empty, massive, underground bus/train “depot” that sits under the downtown has multiple track gauges running through it from all the failed projects.

[c22]

Are you talking about the old convention place station?

[apple4ever]

I always marvel at all of these ETA's. They're building a train station near me and take them 4 years to build it! For a train station! Skyscrapers go up faster than that! I don't get it.

[helen___keller]

Seattles still one of the most capable American cities in regards to constructing transit.

Boston began planning a 4 mile line extension in 2006, completed 2022[0]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line_Extension

[manacit]

I live down in the south end and have taken the train + monorail more than once to a concert at Climate Pledge without issue, absolutely no issues.

The Monorail takes Orca now, and the transfer at Westlake is not bad at all. I would highly recommend giving it a try.

[icelancer]

Yeah, I agree. There's a decent bit to complain about RE: bus routes (lol Northgate to Ballard being impossible somehow) but public transportation in Seattle is largely pretty good. I commuted downtown daily on various bus lines before the light rail was a thing, and when I go downtown now from South Seattle, the light rail is quite solid.

Light rail -> monorail -> Climate Pledge works extremely well. Not sure why GP is complaining, or anyone. The monorail was completely useless forever, no doubt about it, but now it's actually good for the Kraken and shows at Climate Pledge.

[93po]

I also recently did just this without any problems. A minor wait after the Kraken game for the monorail, but I took my sweet time getting there and it was only a 10-15 min wait.

[balls187]

I regularly go to events at CPA and use public transport (which is free for anyone with a ticket to a CPA event).

Sounds like you couldn't figure it out, that's not the fault of the infrastructure, but rather bad UX for route planning. FWIW, Paris Metro (which is great) also had wonky UX, until you get the hang of it.

Anyway, take the Link Light Rail to Westlake Station. That's where you catch the Monorail to CPA. Do it in reverse at the end of your event.

[seanmcdirmid]

The rapid bus D line goes straight there if you live in Ballard. That will be replaced by a light rail when I’m retired. We go to Seattle center a lot, though never for the arena.

The monorail is cool, but if you have transit links in Seattle and the monorail is OOS, you can always walk that stretch pretty easily.

[verst]

I live in Ballard and frequent the D and 40 buses to get to Seattle center or downtown. Uber / Lyft are insanely expensive now, and I have a zero alcohol policy when I'm driving.

[seanmcdirmid]

The D is crazy, the 40 can be less so. Another option is link + 44 in the U district, sometimes it’s only 5 minutes slower.

[tomcam]

Is Amazon responsible for Seattle public transit in return for naming rights or something? Not following your logic.

[whatever1]

Tech population grew faster than the infrastructure in the wider Seattle area. Especially after the return-to-office mandates from the companies, traffic is at LA levels. 1-2 hour 1-way commutes are common.

[influx]

If only we had a city council and state government that cared about the environment and priorities public transport…

[mbgerring]

If only we had meaningful state capacity in the US, and didn’t depend on the whims of wealthy individuals

[hackernewds]

If only we cared less about those without wealth and power, and bulldozed our way over these helpless communities like other countries with solid public transportation have done.

[sofixa]

That's mostly an American thing (bulldozing the poor away to build infrastructure, mostly highways).

For instance, Paris is currently building 200km of new metros, with minimal disruption outside of stations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Paris_Express

There's also the massive Chinese subway building program. And the London Crossrail. And many others.

[caskstrength]

People in states (outside of enclave of European hipsters in NYC) still haven't heard about Asian and European tricksters building train lines _underground_. Understandable, since this is quite a recent invention...

[jen20]

Sounds a lot to me like how Americans built roads. I can’t imagine you don’t actually know this.

[throwawaylinux]

Corporations lobby to back and influence local government to rubber-stamp their plans without requiring the necessary services and infrastructure to be in place or paid for.

Don't try to put it in the voters' lap.

[Tyrek]

if only local government and voters had agency to oppose such influences.

[throwawaylinux]

They do, and the process is not always robust enough to counter corporate lobbying and political corruption.

[swexbe]

"Stop hitting yourself"

[_huayra_]

They even added a "reverse incentive": you can park in any of the Amazon garages for free after 4pm or any time on weekends (as long as you leave by 2am, and even then the charges are pretty cheap if you blow past the deadline).

[cantaloupe]

Downtown Seattle’s not that big. Walking from Westlake (light rail) to Climate Pledge is 20-25 minutes, no transfer needed.

[Aeolun]

I don’t know about you, but 20 minutes sounds like quite a walk. It’s absolutely possible, and can be done for fun, but if your main goal is going to a concert tacking on another 40 minutes walking may be mildly frustrating.

[cantaloupe]

That’s fair, although people often underestimate the time “more convenient” options take. For example, walk 2 minutes to a bus, wait 5 minutes, ride 5 minutes, walk 3 minutes to destination. Not too much faster. Happens all the time with cars in the city. Spend 5 minutes looking for parking that ends up being a 5 minute walk away, and a 10 drive is now a 20 minute transit.

[dag11]

With the amount of rain we get (or just cold or brisk or misty weather in general) for 3/4 of the year, even if the transit option is only 16 minutes (inclusive of the bookend walks, according to Google Maps), it's still infinitely preferable to walking 20 minutes in that weather.

[wiml]

We rarely get the kind of rain that's unpleasant to walk in. If you have a hat or jacket you'll be fine.

[dag11]

I have a fantastic, well-fitting rain shell, and comfortable waterproof shoes. Rain is absolutely no problem for me, but the general inconvenience of it all (wet exterior, wet face, etc) and temperatures are still enough to make me vastly prefer the transit option compared to a slightly longer walking option.

[kelnos]

Another? A 20-minute walk tacking on another 40 minutes to your trip would only be the case if you can drive there in zero minutes, which... I think it's safe to assume is not the case.

And given that we're talking about a concert at some sort of large facility, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes you more than 20 minutes to get out of the parking garage after the event, let alone drive yourself home in the post-concert traffic.

This is also without even addressing how sad it is to me that someone might consider 20 minutes to be "quite a walk". If you're mobility-impaired or there's some severe weather going on, sure, but otherwise... oof.

[Aeolun]

OP indicated that arriving by car they got there much faster. I assume they wouldn’t have said that if their time finding a parking garage took up a large chunk of time.

Then other person said it would be 20m to walk from the train station. Not 20m from OP’s house.

Assuming the car is generally faster than the train, you now have a choice between train + another 20m walk, or car + whatever time it takes to park.

20m is enough to get the bike out for, but that’s not an option after taking the train.

[brewdad]

How long will it take you to get out of the parking garage after the show? I haven't been to Climate Pledge but I've easily spent 15 minutes waiting to leave a garage after a 3000 attendee stage show.

[Aeolun]

Were you sitting in a comfortably air conditioned car, instead of being drenched out walking 20m in the rain?

[lynx23]

> cheaper/easier to do so

Right, with this attitude, nothing will ever improve. Yes, infrastructure needs to be built, no question. But if "cheaper/easier to do" are the only criteria for people to decide how to act, we are doomed. Get your act together and make some sacrifice, or stop talking about climate change altogether.