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by dragonwriter 1116 days ago
> Health care requires other people’s labor though. If you make that a right you risk needing to implement some kind of forced labor system

Whether that's true or not depends on the exact parameters of the right, and, in any case, the US has compulsory civic labor notwithstanding the 13th Amendment (jury service actively, conscription historically). Jury service direct relates to a positive right.

It also has positive rights which require labor but which somehow are not achieved by forced labor (voting, for instance, requires supporting labor.)

> I’m not particularly pro gun, I just don’t think positive rights are practical from a design perspective.

And yet, the US has positive rights, and the system hasn’t collapsed (e.g.,.the right to assistance of counsel in criminal cases, for instance, in addition to others previously listed.)
1 comments
refurb 1116 days ago
Voting is voluntary.

Jury duty places a large burden on many people. I served on a jury and there were people who missed out on work and made $20 per day.

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dragonwriter 1116 days ago
> Voting is voluntary.

Exercise of all rights is voluntary. Voting requires someone else’s labor (ballot preparation, vote counting, etc.), which is the attribute that you said makes positive rights impractical.

> Jury duty places a large burden on many people.

And, yet, trial by jury is a right.

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s1artibartfast 1116 days ago
After reading your comments last night, I think there's an argument that some of these these things are process operational constraints on how the state can operate. For example, the state doesn't have to charge someone in court, but if they do they must also provide the option for trial by jury.

I think the construction of if the state does X, it must also do Y sets it apart from a universal positive right.

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the state can refuse to provide a jury trial for a citizen initiated legal action, like a civil suit by declining to hear the case.

I think you could find a similar framing for voting as well.

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refurb 1115 days ago
Exercise of all rights is voluntary.

Sure, but having a place to live is not voluntary, everyone needs it.

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