[redeeman]

> That means sacrificing something small (like a gas shortage)

okay.. tell that to the ones that simply cannot afford it

> for something valuable (no major war in Europe).

/me looks at Ukraine: there seems to be a war... /me looks at globe.. in... Europe.

is the war lasting longer because the EU and US sends arms to Ukraine?

[_kbh_]

> is the war lasting longer because the EU and US sends arms to Ukraine?

The war is lasting longer because the Russians have decided that the number of dead Russians and recaptured positions that need to happen for the war to end is higher than what Ukraine has currently achieved.

This war could be over tomorrow if Russia decided to leave, if anything western weapons and aid are making the war end faster by speeding up Russias defeat.

[redeeman]

im not saying anything about that, but answer my question, is the war lasting longer due to US/EU actions, or is it shorter? it seems ukraine cannot defeat russia even with all the aid we give them, might the war simply be prolonged by giving a false sense of hope? how many more are we making die?

[_kbh_]

> but answer my question, is the war lasting longer due to US/EU actions, or is it shorter?

Western aid is letting Ukraine finish the war faster so its making it shorter.

> it seems ukraine cannot defeat russia even with all the aid we give them, might the war simply be prolonged by giving a false sense of hope?.

I don't know why you think Ukraine cannot beat Russia, Russia just admitted they had to take ~100k causalities trying to Bakhmut in 9 months. Those statistics are entirely impossible to sustain.

> how many more are we making die?

We are making as many Russians die as we need to until they finally go home.

[H8crilA]

You'd be right if not for what Russia plans to do next in the event of a victory in Ukraine. Ukraine is not the target, it's a target in the sequence of targets.

A few months before the war broke out Putin issued a very clear ultimatum to the West: withdrawal of NATO forces and installations from every country east of Germany. He issued none to Ukraine because he wanted the entire country.

The war will continue for as long as Russia is able to wage it, therefore we must destroy Russia as a political system that exists today. Or declaw it to the point of irrelevance. That is the way out of this war, unless you're willing to go back to USSR borders. And even then it's not clear they would stop.

Russia is surprisingly open about its goals. Just read what serious people in the Kremlin say over the years (and definitely tune out the garbage that they spew on Rossiya 1 for the older generation homo-sovieticus, no one in the Kremlin cares about that shit). Thanks to the large influx of Russian-speaking immigration we have quite a lot of capable experts that understand it well.

War, unlike marriage, only requires consent on one side. I.e. the "collective west" is in a war just because Russia wants that, and there's nothing "West" can do to exit the war. They can only win it.