[wonderwonder]

I hear what you are saying but I'm not seeking to isolate my kids at all. Today's "moral puritanism" is yesterday's raising kids to understand right from wrong and what makes a good man. They hang out with friends, play on sports teams, take academic extra curriculars. The only thing I limit is social media. Social media is not a nice introduction to different views, it's an aggressive shotgun blast with the worst kind of people peddling their views for likes and followers. kids don't need social media to be well rounded, removing a negative influence is not sheltering.

[syndacks]

Serious question, what does it mean to be a good man? Or at least, what/who are you pointing your son to in this regard? I fear we don’t have many forums or role models for being a good man, which is complicated by, IMO, the chorus coming from the left which seeks to demonize “toxic masculinity”. As an atheist I’m seriously considering if we all need some more Jesus in our lives, or some figure (real or not) who can espouse snippets of Good Man conduct.

[wonderwonder]

The value of a "good man" must be set by the parents. It can change based on who those parents are. If parents don't define what it means then the kid will figure it out based on other influences. The negative of this is often seen when there is an absent father. In that case unfortunately the mother has to work twice as hard with no support.

For me, (athiest as well) I'm slightly right of center or probably right smack in the middle of what used to be the center a decade ago. I don't think there is such a thing as toxic masculinity.

I teach my kids that to be a man means: being kind to those less fortunate than you or even to those that you disagree with. I teach them that if someone puts a hand on you or someone you care about then all bets are off, fight until they can't continue or you can't. To lose is to risk death when not in a controlled environment (boxing ring, etc). Don't be a bully either physically or emotionally. No one is better than you. Never let anyone shame you for what you are. Always try your best. Look after the people that rely on you. You live the life that you earn.

There is more but that's the gist. Essentially boys look at their father to learn what a man is. If he is absent or does not give them attention they will seek validation else where.

Note: I'm not an expert, just a guy doing the best he can with 2 elementary school age boys.

[kjkjadksj]

Fighting is not good to teach. Have your boys litigate instead. One awkward fall in a scuffle and your head could land bad on a curb and then its over for you, wouldn’t even take much of a fight just a misstep. Then who knows how things might look for you in a court of law if you do walk out of that fight. Plus theres no way to be sure the other party doesnt have a knife or a gun.

[wonderwonder]

My kids are in elementary school. I started my kids in boxing when in 1 week my youngest was sucker punched while jogging in P.E. and my oldest was put in a choke hold from behind for no reason by a bigger kid. They didn't fight back because they were afraid of getting in trouble. So even without fighting back they can get hurt. Told them I was putting them in boxing and that no one has the right to touch you. Some one puts their hands on you, break their face. Any consequences are mine. Lying there saying please stop while at the mercy of someone beating you to death because you didn't fight back or tried to litigate with someone is not great either. Someone goes after you, do your utmost to ensure they can't do it again. My kids understand that now.

[kjkjadksj]

Escalating introduces dangerous variables. I’m sorry your school is rife with bullying but honestly, the correct move in these cases is to just run away. Like I said, making a move to continue the fight prolongs the risk you are taking for a bad fall that could break your neck. Its all too easy.

[wonderwonder]

Respectfully disagree. If you spend your life running away it changes your psyche. It changes the way you interact with the world, fear becomes the driving emotion. As my dad, who used to lead special forces groups used to say, it "leaves little grey marks on your soul". As long as the odds are not against you, stand and fight. You do whatever you think is right though, I understand your point and where you are coming from.