[_kbh_]

> Of course. That was the plan and one of the reasons why the U.S. did not back down on Ukraine NATO membership in 2021, with the anticipated result (article is from before the war and there are plenty of other sources):

The war started in 2014, the full invasion only started in 2022, so this makes no sense whatsoever.

[klrlr]

The situation was exactly the same before 2014:

https://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-russia-cable-2014-...

Moreover, U.S. efforts to sabotage EU-Russia trades go back to the Soviet times.

[_kbh_]

are you the same person as above? why do you keep making new users?.

> The situation was exactly the same before 2014:

> https://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-russia-cable-2014-...

> Moreover, U.S. efforts to sabotage EU-Russia trades go back to the Soviet times.

There as zero talk of Ukraine being in NATO in serious manner before Russia invaded, if Ukraine manages to get into NATO, Russia would have caused it.

[dmpk2k]

For some definition of "zero":

Issued by the Heads of State and Government participating in the meeting of the North Atlantic Council in Bucharest on 3 April 2008

We, the Heads of State and Government of the member countries of the North Atlantic Alliance, met today to enlarge our Alliance and further strengthen our ability to confront the existing and emerging 21st century security threats. We reviewed the significant progress we have made in recent years to transform NATO, agreeing that this is a process that must continue. Recognising the enduring value of the transatlantic link and of NATO as the essential forum for security consultations between Europe and North America, we reaffirmed our solidarity and cohesion and our commitment to the common vision and shared democratic values embodied in the Washington Treaty. The principle of the indivisibility of Allied security is fundamental. A strong collective defence of our populations, territory and forces is the core purpose of our Alliance and remains our most important security task. We reiterate our faith in the purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter.

[...]

NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO. Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations. We welcome the democratic reforms in Ukraine and Georgia and look forward to free and fair parliamentary elections in Georgia in May. MAP is the next step for Ukraine and Georgia on their direct way to membership. Today we make clear that we support these countries’ applications for MAP. Therefore we will now begin a period of intensive engagement with both at a high political level to address the questions still outstanding pertaining to their MAP applications. We have asked Foreign Ministers to make a first assessment of progress at their December 2008 meeting. Foreign Ministers have the authority to decide on the MAP applications of Ukraine and Georgia.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_8443.htm

I'll never understand why we recently pretend that we haven't been poking the bear.

[_kbh_]

> I'll never understand why we recently pretend that we haven't been poking the bear.

I never understand why people like you think Russia has the right to decide what alliance countries get into, and why Russia has the right to unilaterally abandon and go against international agreements that they sign (like the Budapest memorandum).

In reality Ukraine had zero chance of NATO membership and it still doesn't until far into the future, Russias reasons for invading clearly have nothing to do with Ukraine unless you can show me the tanks rolling towards Finland and Sweden right now.

So please tell me why does Russia get to roll through Ukraine and rape and torture its citizens with impunity?.

[dmpk2k]

> I never understand why people like you think Russia has the right to decide what alliance countries get into, and why Russia has the right to unilaterally abandon and go against international agreements that they sign

Except I do not. That presents a false dichotomy, and a remarkably simplistic one at that.

Nothing you wrote changes what I posted. I leave it to the reader to decide what to make of the 2008 text above, and the events that transpired afterwards.

[_kbh_]

> Except I do not. That presents a false dichotomy, and a remarkably simplistic one at that.

In this case you can only be against Russias invasion of Ukraine which I assume yo wholeheartedly are.