[thc-27182]

Doesn't really sound all that outclassed. Ukraine has been shooting down a fair bit of Russian attacks and if I'm not mistaken Ukraine has some better ranged munitions now.

Hardly seems like being outclassed when Russia has spent the last year redeveloping it's logistics.

Additionally this is Russia's best vs the Wests hand-me-downs.

[cpursley]

> Ukraine has been shooting down a fair bit of Russian attacks

Yes. With old Soviet equipment (largely S-300s and BUKs). Which further proves my point. But those are running low and Ukraine has already lost a Patriot system just a few weeks after going into service.

Ukraine might have some better ranged munitions than they did previously like British Storm Shadows. They have even less range than the the US ATACMS and both are getting intercepted on the regular. And vs. the Russian Kalibrs, neither are all that special.

But the biggest problem is Ukraine doesn't have sufficient launch platforms for them (they are air launched and have to be retrofitted to Soviet era aircraft).

Now Russian logistics is a different story...

[thc-27182]

They have been using a mixture of AA from around the world.

https://archive.fo/zDtjr

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/19/ukraine-air-...

Patriot system has been reportedly consistently shooting down Kinzhal.

Not questioning whether or not Russia posses(ed) some great engineers (this would have to include Ukrainians then since this stuff was designed in the USSR) that certainly can do it's job when deployed correctly. Rather that Russia has somehow outclassed the "West" seems rather farfetched here.

[cpursley]

Do you really believe the Patriot is shooting down Kinzhals? Consider the source. And the physics of it all (the math don't work). And the history of the Patriot system (inability to shoot down 1960s scuds, several friendly fire aircraft incidents). It's a 30+ year old system, after all.

And did you see the full video of the Patriot blowing two full loads before getting taken out in Kiev by Kinzhals (2:14 hit)?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew5lhh_gV1U

[_kbh_]

> Do you really believe the Patriot is shooting down Kinzhals? Consider the source. And the physics of it all. And the history of the Patriot system (inability to shoot down 1960s scuds, several friendly fire aircraft incidents). It's a 30+ year old system, after all.

Yes, its simple hypersonic ballistic missiles are nowhere near new, whats new is hypersonic glide vehicle of which Kinzhal is not. You simply aim for where the missile is going to be in the future and hit to kill it.

Also, the Kinzhal is close to 30+ years old as well as it's just a Iskander thats air launched.

> And did you see the full video of the Patriot blowing two full loads before getting taken out in Kiev by Kinzhals (2:14 hit)?:

You have the video, can you show me a single image of an exploded patriot, you cant because it missed the only damage was from shrapnel from nearby buildings and that was quickly repaired.

[thc-27182]

Do you have evidence or facts to show that the news reports on the Patriot system are wrong?

Would love to see evidence that the system was destroyed (as in couldn't be repaired; couldn't still do it's mission) and that Kinzhals have not been shot down.

[fabian2k]

Any evidence that Storm Shadow have been shot down regularly?

And in addition to the soviet equipment they have IRIS-T SLM, Patriot and some other western systems.