[mattigames]

if Vim had the very same problem for US keyboard layouts it would have never become the standard choice for "hackers" (e.g. in a parallel universe where Vim was created by a Japanese for Japanese keyboards), so yeah, in general hackers hate when their tools don't work out of the box, hackers expect the very basics of any tool to work out of the box, changing settings should be a step to accommodate it to your liking, not to fix basic functionality.

[tourmalinetaco]

> if Vim had the very same problem for US keyboard layouts it would have never become the standard choice for "hackers"

Not necessarily, since it’d just be a matter of popularizing Vim + the community’s preferred shortcuts as a starter instead.

> in general hackers hate when their tools don't work out of the box

Indeed we do. However, we don’t give up on something if it doesn’t work. We simply hack at it until it works how we want ;)

[mattigames]

> Not necessarily, since it’d just be a matter of popularizing Vim + the community’s preferred shortcuts as a starter instead.

There isn't that many software dev tools were a small variation in key bindings (or some similar small change) became ubiquious and propelled the popularity by adapting it to the local needs of American developers/IT (keyboard layout in this case), it's a chicken and egg problem because if Vim wasn't that popular there wouldn't be much interest in creation preferred shortcuts, so I conclude that what you suggested is not what would have happened.

[pineaux]

I love the true scotsman arguments in this subthread. Defining "hackers" as this or that.