[pandaman]

>It’s really hard for someone who hasn’t lived it to really understand what it means to be able to walk to the shop. Then compare to when that’s not physically possible.

I got you, friend. I grew up in the USSR, where private cars were luxury and public transit was so abundant that people referred to locations by the subway stations. The cities were designed for the citizens without cars (no parking anywhere, "microdistricts" in the newly built areas). It objectively sucks. I now live in the USA and can compare, if you have any questions I will be glad to explain what the life without a car is really like.

[scott_w]

Until 2 years ago, I lived without a car and walked to work until 2018 (when I switched to remote working). I know the pros and cons. The USSR being shit doesn't make living without a car shit.

Even now, owning a car, I typically walk or ride. If I tried to do this in the USA, I'd be getting scraped off a stroad.

[pandaman]

I imagine that if you work at home, have no children and have other people driving cars for you (delivery, taxi etc) it's not that bad. Not many people can afford this lifestyle though.

[scott_w]

You didn’t read what I said: I only started WFH in 2018. I used to commute on foot before that.

My fiancé’s mother can’t drive and managed to raise 3 children by herself without a car, too. In the right environment, yes it is possible. No, she’s not rich by any stretch.

[pandaman]

I did read it, I don't know what you wanted this to express but I understood it as the admission that walking to work became untenable. 2018 is not 2020, WFH then had a great income/career progression penalty.

And a whole lot of people managed to raise even more children before cars were invented or even horses were domesticated. Eg my gran-gran raised 3 children without running water and electricity (and obviously no horse or car), that does not mean she enjoyed it.

[scott_w]

> I understood it as the admission that walking to work became untenable

I don't understand how you inferred that unless you chose to.

> And a whole lot of people managed to raise even more children before cars were invented or even horses were domesticated.

What on earth are you talking about? Either you've never been to London, or any major European city, or you're making spurious comparisons in bad faith.

[pandaman]

You mentioned some woman raising children without a car as if it somehow supported your point, I pointed out that somebody doing something in the past is not a proof of that being somehow superior or even acceptable now. Even in the present time millions live and raise children without running water and electricity, should we start arguing that Americans need to quit these too because they cannot imagine living without them?