[rfmc]

What you say isn't possible is being done with the greatest amount of success in Amsterdam, great success in Copenhagen, and it's picking up steam now in Paris. Just to mention a few.

It's a gradual process, and part of the problem is actually embedded on your analogy, it's not like perform a heart and artery transplant, because there's no single action that can solve the problem, but years, and years of multiple, small and large initiatives, to make car dependency goes down.

[nologic01]

The speed of change is very slow. The "greatest amount of success" in the cities you mention has been a decades-long process that merely reduced the car density in select inner parts of the cities.

We are not talking about perfection being the enemy of the good. The congestion of the daily car commute is as real as anywhere.

Ultimately its a question of finding accelerating solutions (the way). The article I commended on focuses too much on a certain value set (the will).

There are good things being invented. Tiny electric cars for example, that in principle could halve the car density. But remember the paradox that more space will simply lead to more traffic.

Ultimately the entire distribution of work, residential and utility/shopping areas must change. This is not shapped so much by individual preferrences around mobility as it is about real eastate and transport economics, incentives for developers, manufacturers and financiers, interplay with local government tax strategies etc.

Its a wicked problem. Being clear about the challenges can only be good. Blind faith doesnt always carry the day.

[TylerE]

Did you really just compare a midsized US citing to freaking Amsterdam? That’s… hopelessly out of touch is about the kindest thing I could say.

[rfmc]

Oh yeah. I forgot that the USA operate by another set of rules than the rest of humanity.

What is your point even? Population? Sprawl?

[TylerE]

Well, yes? The Amsterdam metro area is almost 3M people. This is like acting surprised people don’t consider a dog and a cow comparable as pets.

[rfmc]

Copenhagen is 600k. Shitty weather year-round, predicting the next point of pro car dependency arguments.

[TylerE]

Which is still 3x the city in question. No sale.

[rfmc]

Odense in Denmark, 200k. Good public transportation, never needed a car when visiting it. Roskilde is even smaller 50k and fine to get around walking, biking or by public transportation.

[vel0city]

In that town in question, I imagine the average household lives on at least quarter acre lots if not more, and that's how they want to live. Does that sound similar to Copenhagen? Is it realistic then to expect a Copenhagen transit style to be functional in that town?

[bombcar]

Amsterdam is hailed as some perfection, but 60% of Netherlands commutes are by car: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1013713/mode-of-transpor...

[Vinnl]

That's just work, and still a pretty low percentage. Lots of folk doing grocery shopping, visiting friends, etc. by other means of transportation (cycling primarily). And where cars do intersect with daily life (i.e. not on the highway), they're integrated way more safely into the infrastructure.

[rfmc]

I’ve never claimed perfection. But comparing the city to the whole country is disingenuous at best.

Rotterdam is the polar opposite to Amsterdam in terms of mobility and freedom from car dependency.

[seadan83]

Amsterdam is not an isolated example for the Netherlands where density can easily match a mid sized US city. Further, the density of a downtown district in that same town could easily match the density of a block in Amsterdam (the buildings are only 2 to 4 stories tall)

The examples from those other towns and general strategies employed could easily translate to a smaller town. Alternatively, that smaller town could use towns in the Netherlands as a template for growth rather than say LA

[Vinnl]

If anything, Amsterdam is probably worse than lots of Dutch cities.