[t0mislav]

>12 hours/day

I can't even imagine working a minute longer than 8 hours per day, and 12+ hours is woow. Is this common in US?

I work 8 hours my whole career (IT). My wife works 6 hours per day. (central Europe)

[throwaw12]

I am an engineer as well, in western Europe with kids. But I regularly see people committing code at 9pm or commenting on docs at 11pm or see their testing traces (logs) at 1am and on weekends.

I can't compete with them in any way. "Don't work hard, work smarter" doesn't apply here, because I am surrounded by smart people, who also do smart work, when baseline is same, you just need to work more.

Guess who will be liked/praised more and have less chances to be laid off when conditions get worse?

I am lucky though, its not easy to fire people here, can't imagine what's happening in US

[balfirevic]

> But I regularly see people committing code at 9pm or commenting on docs at 11pm or see their testing traces (logs) at 1am and on weekends

That might not mean much - you'd see the same from me, but I don't work more than 8 hours/day (on average), I just work very irregular hours.

[throwaw12]

> I just work very irregular hours.

Do you also come to office and spend 8 hours, even if you do nothing? I see those people in the office almost regularly

[balfirevic]

Yeah, makes sense if you see them in the office all the time.

I often come to the office for just a couple of hours and then do more work afterwards from home, and other days work entirely from home.

[Aeolos]

I have worked 10-12 hours a day throughout all of my working career (from 19yo onwards). This is in central Europe, and I'm not even the hardest worker around.

[balfirevic]

Do you just sleep, work, commute and do chores? That sounds dreadful to me.

[Aeolos]

I also have hobbies and a social life - but it has consequences.

Family and children are entirely 100% impossible in this lifestyle without a stay-at-home partner. And unlike previous generations, stay-at-home partners are no longer a thing.

(Edit: to make it clear, I am not making a judgement, nor wishing for a stay-at-home partner - I'm entirely in favour of everyone making their own choices in life.

I am just pointing out that younger generations are now living in a totally different environment from previous generations, where a stay-at-home wife was the default. Which is yet another component in the birth rate equation.)

[balfirevic]

Props to you man, I have no kids and still barely manage to have hobbies and social life with just normal full-time hours. I do need a lot of time to sleep and simply rest and do nothing, so that is a factor.