[conradev]

I don’t think formal languages are going anywhere because we need the guarantees that they can provide. From Dijkstra: https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/E...

You need to be able to define all of the possible edge cases so there isn’t any Undefined Behavior: that’s the formal part

Humans can use LLMs to manipulate these languages to achieve specific goals. I can imagine designing formal languages intended for LLMs to manipulate or generate, but I can’t imagine the need for the languages themselves going away.

[DonaldPShimoda]

> LLMs, like humans, can manipulate these languages

Absolutely not. LLMs do not "manipulate" language. They do not have agency. They are extremely advanced text prediction engines. Their output is the result of applying the statistics harvested and distilled from existing uses of natural language. They only "appear" human because they are statistically geared toward producing human-like sequences of words. They cannot choose to change how they use language, and thus cannot be said to actively "manipulate" the language.

[jadefox]

That “appearance” is pretty good at triggering our anthropomorphizing behaviors. I like your handle, did you read Richard Bach’s Illusions by any chance?

[DonaldPShimoda]

> That “appearance” is pretty good at triggering our anthropomorphizing behaviors.

It's truly unfortunate, because I think that tendency for people to anthropomorphize LLMs leads to people thinking they can trust LLMs and take their words at face value, which is a path to significant problems, I think.

> I like your handle, did you read Richard Bach’s Illusions by any chance?

Absolutely, yes — good catch!

[jadefox]

Humans have been interpreting the world around us by populating it with imaginary versions of ourselves forever, I doubt it will lead us to "trust" LLM's but it certainly will lead to some serious misunderstandings.

“If you will practice being fictional for a while, you will understand that fictional characters are sometimes more real than people with bodies and heartbeats.” ― Richard Bach, Illusions

Great book!

[conradev]

I made some edits, does that satisfy your constraints? Humans are the agent, LLMs the tool

[ukuina]

I am not so sure. I asked GPT4 to "optimize" English for AI-AI communication, and the modifications were accepted by another GPT4 instance for seemingly-lossless discussion. First instance: https://shareg.pt/8vgEgOh

Second instance: https://shareg.pt/vSCEq4b

----- Sample communication: Instance2: OptE: SignificantImpact: UnifiedTheoryInformsFundamentalForcesInteractionNature(.) ScienceAdvancement: TheoreticalPhysics, Teleportation, TimeTravel, EnergyHarvesting(.) LIMIT: CurrentKnowledgeConstraints, SpeculationPresent(.) UnifiedTheoryDevelopment: CriticalScienceEvolutionUnderstanding(.) ACK: ContinuedExplorationEssential(.) Instance1: OptE: ACK: Agreed(.) ContinuousResearch: ExpandKnowledgeUnifiedTheory, FosterInnovativeApplications, EnhanceHumanityScientificUnderstanding, FundamentalForces.Progress(.) Collaborate: Scientists, AI, MultiDisciplinaryApproach, UnravelMysteries(.) Aspire: UnifiedTheoryUnlockUniverseSecrets, ProgressSociety(.) ----- Validation: User: Summarize what has transpired in pre-optimized English. Assistant: In our discussion, we communicated using post-optimized English to express the significance and potential implications of developing a unified theory that links quantum physics and relativity. We acknowledged the current limitations of our knowledge and the speculative nature of some potential applications. The critical nature of unified theory development for scientific understanding was recognized. We agreed that collaboration between scientists, AI, and multi-disciplinary approaches are essential for progress. Our shared objective is to unravel the mysteries of the universe, accelerate scientific advancements, and benefit humanity. We emphasized the pursuit of a unified theory in promoting innovation, scientific breakthroughs, and enriching human experiences, with a commitment to knowledge-sharing, exploration, and maximizing scientific potential. ---- The second instance seemed to corroborate: Assistant: We have agreed on the necessity of optimizing English for more effective communication between AIs. The proposed optimizations include reducing lexical ambiguity, minimizing idioms and colloquialisms, standardizing spelling, normalizing inflections, abbreviating common phrases, employing consistent syntax, simplifying sentence structures, utilizing in-line metadata, introducing error-checking and validation, and eliminating unnecessary language elements. Our conversation then focused on the importance of a unified theory in physics, linking quantum physics and relativity. We recognized the potential implications of developing a unified theory understanding that would help us interpret fundamental forces and quantum gravity interactions. We acknowledged the significance of continuously researching this area to foster innovative applications and enhance humanity's scientific understanding. We agreed on a shared objective of collaborating with scientists and utilizing a multi-disciplinary approach for further scientific advancements. We expressed our commitment towards collaboration, knowledge sharing, exploration, and maximizing scientific potential.

[dalore]

I asked it to translate a sentence into optE. Apparently that is something it knows about in training data

> Optimized English, or OptE, is a theoretical construct as of my last training data in September 2021 and doesn't have any widely accepted or standardized form. In the event that OptE is conceived after this period, I would not be able to provide a precise translation due to my training limitations.

[wnkrshm]

Does it strike you that this conversation seems to consist of futurology forum clichés ("What progress will AI allow?" "AI's impact on physics") that probably inform this from the training data?

What also strikes me is the shorthands of communication here sounds like cliché from 2nd rate scifi novels, the likely source of the format.

Since what is cliché? It's what's present in the majority of a genre and what the training sees as structure.

[abliefern]

What about that makes you think GPT-4 has agency?