[oifjsidjf]

House and food should be treated completely differently then other non-essential goods like entertainment and electronics.

Destroy housing -> destroy people's future and family creation.

Air b&b is cancer for people trying to start families as it destroys all local affordable housing.

[pydry]

It's not housing-as-a-good that's a problem it's the land.

Land owners didnt create the land. Rights to land are always acquired, ultimately, through violence.

Land owners dont make it valuable - a good teacher drives up her own rent.

Supply and demand work in reverse. The more land owners buy and hoard it the more valuable it becomes.

Unlike, say, income taxes, which discourage work, taxing land just discourages hoarding and unproductive use. Higher taxes would thus relieve shortages on top of bolstering government budgets.

Airbnb isnt a direct cause of those shortages, it just partook in the rent bonanza driven by the global property hoarding frenzy. Banning or strictly regulating it in tourist hotspots is probably a good idea but doesnt resolve the underlying problem.

[chx]

> income taxes, which discourage work,

you are out of your mind

[foogazi]

Ask people moving from California to Texas or Washington

[seanmcdirmid]

If you are moving to Washington (or even Texas) for the low property taxes...well, you'll learn the hard way.

[quickthrowman]

You just end up paying more property tax or sales tax in states without income tax. You cannot escape taxation.

[dorchadas]

Living in a city heavily impacted by it, I couldn't agree more. People love it, because they feel entitled as tourists to live like locals, at the expense of the actual locals. It's literally all about entitlement, while forcing the negative externalities on the community you came to visit! Outta sight, outta mind.

[aleph_minus_one]

> because they feel entitled as tourists to live like locals

Rather: they feel entitled as tourists to live in a Disneyland version what they imagine to be the locals' lifes.

[carlosjobim]

Tourists don't "feel entitled", they rent apartments because hotels and guesthouses are full, or the price is cheaper, or they think the price is cheaper. Tourists have no blame in this - they book what is on offer.

[SwiftyBug]

And on top of that there's nothing in renting an AirBnB that provides a "local" experience. It's an ego-based illusion of experiencing the local life at best.

[joshlemer]

If not AirBnB to have a local experience, then what?

[badpun]

Move there and live for a couple of months, or, better yet, a couple of years. You can't have a "local experience" without being a local.

[joshlemer]

Sounds a bit elitist to me to be honest. Only a tiny percent of people can afford to do this, considering career, financial, and family obligations.

[badpun]

I guess. But, having an "authentic local experience" is a pinnacle of first world needs, so not getting it ever is not really a big deal for anyone.

[barbazoo]

Many small cities we visit have apartments (Airbnb's) near the city center where it's walkable whereas hotels/motels are often in less walkable parts of the city. For me that makes for a more "local" experience.

[FredPret]

And I guess you yourself are the exception in that you are entitled to living in a tourist-free city, and all the tourist-dependent businesses in your area and all the tourists that want to visit can go to hell?

Maybe we should just build enough housing for everyone.

[leoedin]

I think the resentment comes from the fact that, for many large cities, the tourism aspect is a very small part of the city. Take for example the city I grew up in - Edinburgh. Tourism contributes £1.3bn to the cities economy, but the city has a GDP of £26bn. So tourism is 5% of GDP, yet it has a completely disproportionate impact on the city centre.

If you play "count the lockboxes" in the centre you realise almost every flat in the centre is an AirBnB. Those flats take in 4x what a normal rented flat will make, so of course there's a strong incentive for landlords to rent on AirBnB. Right now the city is going through a huge housing shortage - people are having to defer degree courses or live outside the city because they literally can't find anywhere to rent.

Of course, tourists aren't the only cause of this. There's a huge intergenerational issue (I know countless people in their 60s living in very large houses), and the city has historically been very conservative about building new houses to match population growth.

Ultimately the city is owned and run mostly by the people who live there. Most of them have no choice about the level of tourism, and it's pretty reasonable to want to have a discussion about whether you really want to have your city turned into a theme park.

[sampo]

> the city has historically been very conservative about building new houses to match population growth.

This is the main problem. Solution is simple: Allow more new construction, lots of it.

Local people have voted against their own long term interests, if they have voted for politicians who have opposed new construction.

It is easy to succumb to short term selfishness: "I already have a home, so I don't want any new construction near me. I oppose building new homes." But in time, every one of us will need to move to a new home. Then you will start to wish that if you had supported building new homes, it would be easier for you, too, to find a new home.

[pjc50]

> Allow more new construction, lots of it

Specifically in Edinburgh, the problem is the city is a World Heritage Site. https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/728/

It's an inherent problem in tourism: tourists want an "unspoiled" view, which means not building infrastructure for tourists or locals.

Building definitely is happening. See the Plan: https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/25264/edinburgh-... - but of course you can't build just houses, you have to build roads and schools and waste disposal and public transport to go with them. The city has struggled with its tram project and the railways are at capacity.

[FredPret]

When the younger generation takes over, I predict a massive wave of construction globally. Most millennials have had it up to here both with high rent and the anti-development I've-already-got-my-own-house crowd that caused it.

[troyvit]

And I'll be the old guy yelling about it in the street. I've lived in the same town for most of my life, so I've seen it metastasize across the countryside, gobbling up farmland, wildlife habitat and open spaces, replacing them with McMansions, apartment buildings and Costcos, just to make room for more ... frikken ... people. It's like watching your best high school friend turn into a junkie whore before your eyes.

I don't know what the answer is, but there is something to be said for retaining some beauty at the expense of fewer people, and maybe rethinking the idea that growth is necessary to success, 'cause we're running out of room and that definition can't last forever.

[theironhammer]

You need laws to prevent speculators/investors from buying up all the newly built housing.

Vancouver built lots of new housing but it was mostly snapped up by investors.

That Norwegian ski town got it right.

[FredPret]

No you don’t. Investors and speculators want to rent it out, giving young people without credit scores and saved-up capital housing options.

Even speculators who buy and hold empty houses aren’t a problem. No investor is satisfied with no returns (ie, no sale and no rent) indefinitely. Speculators that are dumb enough to be happy with zero returns ought to be, and always are, separated from their capital.

Within a short time the market will balance out between the builders, the buy-to-let landlords, the single-family owners, and the flippers and speculators… assuming you don’t have some crazy regulations putting a thumb on the single-family owner end of the scale by blocking construction.

[bombcar]

This is the real kicker. If Venice turns into a tourist Disneyland I’d feel a bit bad for the people who had lived there, but maybe it would be for the best.

But if downtowns of cities are being hollowed out and filled with tourists, it’s not going to go well for anyone - because eventually even the tourists won’t really want to be there anymore.

[stewartmcgown]

Too right. Glasgow is cracking down on new AirBnBs but not hard enough in my opinion. A city is for the people that live and work there, primarily. Tourism should be supported, but in almost no case should it take priority over making the city itself better for the people that have made it their home.

[Symbiote]

Airbnb-free is not tourist free, there are hotels, apartment hotels, hostels, resorts, campsites etc.

[dorchadas]

It has nothing to do with tourists visiting. It's tourists taking up the local housing. Tourists are planned into any good urban planning -- but they're not expected to stay in the residential areas, especially while the local residents are getting hurt because of it.

The issue isn't tourists, it's where they're staying. Tourists are welcome, they're not entitled to live like 'locals' at the local's expense. Stay in a hotel.

> Maybe we should just build enough housing for everyone.

Except that won't ever be enough because more and more will just come. And there's already even a glut on AirBnB for tourists, so none of that housing will go the locals. Building isn't the only solution.

[FredPret]

That's fair. From a tourist's point of view, hotels suck, and houses are much better. Home owners also have the right to rent out their houses, as limited by the zoning.

I maintain that the issue can be fixed with more development - build a new tourist zone with hotels that appeal, or AirBnB friendly zoning, or something like that. And for locals, more housing = more options. The local housing can be built outside tourist zones if it has to.

The fact is we have a growing population, a growing global economy, tons of people exiting poverty and entering the global middle class and travelling. This will all accelerate for hundreds of years to come.

[soco]

Hotels suck only to those buying into the relatively recent religion "live like locals" and they are not that many percentage-wise. Most of the AirBnB customers go there hoping for lower prices and that's all there is. Tax the hosts like the hotels are taxed, make them offer the same services the hotels are offering, and I'm sure the main problem will be solved. I say only the main problem because Venice will be Venice and the increase in tourists numbers will be felt either way, so at some point the bigger issue will need to be discussed: should we limit the number of tourists? Sell them time schedule tickets or something? Venice has this discussion already.

[leoedin]

Hotels suck for other reasons. If you're travelling as a group you often don't want to have separate hotel rooms with no shared space. If you're travelling as a family you might have kids that need to go to bed before you. There's much more of a trend to build serviced apartments now - which solve most of those issues.

[FredPret]

I just need a kitchen man

[pjc50]

> Tourists are welcome, they're not entitled to live like 'locals' at the local's expense. Stay in a hotel.

I feel this is an artificial distinction. It's not really the type of building that's involved. People tend to pick whichever of AirBnB or hotel is the most economical for their stay. It's the massive conversion of property from residential to "hotel" by the (often local!) owners that's the problem.

[soco]

If there only was some type of accommodation offering rooms to tourists right there where they want to go but respecting the local laws and regulations... maybe we could call them "hotels" or something.

[bombcar]

There is (was?) a missing middle that Airbnb was nice for - “family” - but once you start looking into it you realize that cities do quite a bunch of thought into hotel location and connecting them to transport, in ways that quieter residences aren’t built for.

[surgical_fire]

> tourists that want to visit can go to hell?

Hotels and hostels are a thing, you know?

[andrewstuart]

Tourists can use hotels.

[mantas]

And neither should focus on just „build more houses“ or „grow more tons of food“. Both must be high quality in terms of (mental) health as well as environment.

[lachstar-x]

You must construct additional pylons.