[kevviiinn]

I think what the OP was getting at is perfectly exemplified in this comment. A person who is set in their ways and unable to comprehend the emotional state of another being, just viewing the resulting behaviors as purely "bad"

[mikepurvis]

At risk of attacking a straw man, do you believe it's ever possible to have a "bad" behaviour? When an adult throws a temper tantrum to an airplane stewardess, is that also something we should look on with "comprehension of another being's emotional state", or is it in fact entitlement, selfishness, poor regulation, and unrealistic expectations? Is that behaviour something we can agree on as being "bad"?

I think that some of this debate comes down to what the ultimate purpose of parenting is— is it to be an eternal safe space for our kids? Somewhere that they can always feel understood and welcomed and heard, where they'll never be asked to consider if their feelings reflect an accurate perception of the world, whether their attitudes have shaped how they experience certain situations, or if their own words and actions have helped create a circumstance they're now frustrated by? Or is parenting about preparing kids to ultimately become citizens of the real world, where teachers, colleagues, bosses, neighbours, doctors, police, airline staff and others will require a certain standard of behaviour and will have basically zero interest in whatever your "reasons" are for why that standard cannot be met at a particular moment.

In truth, the answer is somewhere in the middle. The best parents can both be that safe and listening space, while also gently challenging us to grow and do better (yes, even into adulthood). But I don't see a lot of that nuance from many gentle parenting advocates, who sound much more hard-line, casting non-believers as being "set in their ways", and often responding pretty negatively to parents' fatigue with the extremely exhausting work that it can be constantly taking on and processing the emotions of everyone around them.

On the other hand, there are now a bunch of voices calling for a more balanced approach than what one might find on Instagram and Tiktok:

- https://mashable.com/article/gentle-parenting-social-media-p...

- https://www.parents.com/parenting/better-parenting/style/gen...

- https://filterfreeparents.com/gentle-parenting-is-physically...

- https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/13/style/millennial-earnest-...

[FrankyHollywood]

> But I don't see a lot of that nuance from many gentle parenting advocates

I see friends taking parenting courses, and raising their kids 'by the rules'. It seems so mechanical, and, from the behavior I see it isn't working very well either, just and endless battle against 'the rules'.

My kids are a bit older now, and looking back I see intuition is important in raising kids. You know your own boundaries, and can be strict about them, but you also love your kids, and can even enjoy and laugh seeing them push against rules and discovering their the world. A nice read on this is 'French children don't throw food' [1]

Trusting yourself and your kids makes you less likely to be angry or scream at them. I found raising your voice in many cases just means you don't trust yourself and you don't trust that your kids respect you.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/jan/20/french-childre...

[thanatropism]

> I found raising your voice in many cases just means you don't trust yourself and you don't trust that your kids respect you.

My current working theory is that toddler temper tantrums are this. I mean from the opposite direction; the kid is not on solid footing yet and doesn't think the grownups take them seriously enough.

For the longest while we were making the utmost effort to do the respectful parenting thing, but as he's growing to have very strong opinions that are not always reasonable, this is... harder.

[FrankyHollywood]

Oh yes this is hard... When the kid has a strong opinion, raises voice or just tries to lure you into a discussion or fight. That's the moment where the parent is easily tricked.

Staying calm in such a moment can do wonders and de-escalate, but it's hard, especially when I'm tired and need a moment of quiet :)

[kevviiinn]

I find it rather strange that you conflate the emotional state of a human whose brain is still rapidly developing with that of an adult. You can't possibly believe that those two things are even close to comparable