[logifail]

> Same reason why so many people do the same to children - they're set in their views and are unwilling accept that they might be wrong

There are plenty who believe that withdrawing privileges is an entirely normal and appropriate response when children misbehave.

This isn't punishment, although some children consider it to be.

[iepathos]

Actually, it's the definition of punishment: inflicting or imposing penalties as retribution for an offense. Withdrawing privileges is an imposed penalty. idk if it's appropriate or not, but it's objectively punishment not just an opinion children have.

[logifail]

> Actually, it's the definition of punishment: inflicting or imposing penalties as retribution for an offense.

Children are not small adults, but they are surprisingly capable of understanding incentives.

"If you behave well you can have ice cream. If you behave badly, you don't get ice cream. It's your choice."

It's awful to teach children that behaviour doesn't matter. Actions do have consequences.

[Ensorceled]

This is still punishment, even if you believe it's for their own good that "actions do have consequences".

You can't just redefine it as "not punishment" because you want to use that method in child rearing.

[logifail]

> This is still punishment, even if you believe it's for their own good that "actions do have consequences"

"Actions have consequences" as a statement isn't really up for much debate, it's more of a observation on how the universe works. If we fall far enough, we hurt outselves.

Gravity isn't punishing us when we fall, even if it may feel like that at times - the scars on my right arm from a cycling accident last year are still visible.

[Ensorceled]

"Actions have consequences" is explaining why you are punishing your child.

I'm not saying you're a bad parent for punishing your child, I'm saying you could be a better parent if you stopped leaning on punishment as a parenting tool.

Also, stop telling your child you aren't punishing them because they will ALWAYS remember that bullshit. At least own up to the fact that you are punishing them and tell them why.

[throwaway173738]

It’s called negative punishment, and is pretty ineffective at eliciting the desired behavior. Positive reinforcement is the only way to spotlight the behavior you want by rewarding it. Punishment is more like learning the shape of a room by stubbing your toes on the walls. You’ll eventually get it but only after trying everything else you can think of.

[logifail]

> It’s called negative punishment

It isn't:

"[..] people confuse negative reinforcement with punishment, but these are two different concepts"[0]

[0] https://www.webmd.com/parenting/what-to-know-about-negative-...

[pseudalopex]

"Negative punishment is taking something pleasurable away to decrease the behavior. An example of negative punishment is taking away a toy if your child hits their sibling with it."

[afterburner]

Telling a child they're not being punished as you punish them is gaslighting.

[Ensorceled]

"It's for your own good so it's not punishment."

It is amazing the mental hoops people can jump through.

[logifail]

> It is amazing the mental hoops people can jump through

Our eldest had his computer briefly confiscated not that long ago. He was, of course, cross with me when it happened.

The day afterwards he came to me and thanked me for taking it away(!)

Him: "I was spending way too much time playing games, I see that now" Me: "You're welcome to have it back" Him: "No, I'm not sure I want it in my room. It's too much of a distraction"