[magnetic]

> You wouldn't harm a puppy, even though it's (probably?) not conscious

What makes you think a puppy is not conscious?

For ref:

conscious | ˈkänSHəs | adjective aware of and responding to one's surroundings; awake.

Source: have a puppy. He's plenty aware of his surroundings.

[nmilo]

You found the wrong form of the word. There's the medical consciousness found in the dictionary, as in, "He is asleep so he has lost consciousness," and there is the metaphysical consciousness as in "does a fish have consciousness?" The latter is what people refer to in ethical debates, the former is more of a medical term.

[JoeAltmaier]

The metaphysical version is undefined. So we have the slippery discussions in this whole thread.

[nmilo]

That's the whole point. Consciousness is a fuzzy concept and shouldn't be used as an ethical basis as to what is OK to harm and not harm.

[JoeAltmaier]

I guess we slip into that because inanimate objects are ok to manipulate as we wish without concern. It's a gentle slope from there up to humans, and somewhere along the line it becomes problematic.