[Gareth321]

> The story is dumb, the dialogues are a nightmare and I feel like the more they try to paint the female protagonist as some kind of strong woman the worse it made the whole thing. Instead of making her seem strong she's like a petty person, constantly complaining and badmouth everything.

The Mary Sue trope has infected Hollywood and now the gaming industry. Every woman needs to be perfect; flawless. Every man serves only one purpose: make the Mary Sue appear even more perfect. At this stage I'm impressed when media doesn't include a Mary Sue. I'm really disappointed to see this game is similarly compromised, as I was looking forward to playing it one day.

[AlexandrB]

I really didn't get the vibe that there's some kind of pandering going on with Zero Dawn (haven't played the sequel). I would also note that it's extremely common for video game characters to be Mary Sues, probably because they're often a stand-in for the player. In this regard, Aloy is not particularly different than a Gordon Freeman or a Link. Perhaps that's an indictment of how poor the writing in Zero Dawn is, but it's not unusual.

[trafficante]

The character writing in Forbidden West is largely of the same quality as Zero Dawn: serviceable with a few outstanding characters (none of whom are the MC, unfortunately).

I feel like the reason it’s suddenly become an issue is that the quality of the Main Story took quite a drop in the sequel and it’s easier for people to pick out and criticize examples of poor characterization.

And to be fair, I never thought Forbidden West would be able to match/exceed the fantastic Zero Dawn plot - since ZD relied on a fantastic sci-fi premise that couldn’t be easily repeated once the “truth” had been revealed. But going with cackling immortal demigods dressed like a low budget episode of Star Trek: TOS was a poor choice for the middle act of a trilogy.

What’s really strange is how the new FW expansion lays out more breadcrumbs for the closing act of the trilogy that honestly should have been part of the second act (eg: VAST SILVER and the interactions between Old World AIs). I’d be less disappointed in the mustache twirling, scene eating, villains in sparkly spandex if they were the final remnants of humanity’s ancient hubris that had to be dealt with to bring lasting peace.

[rjzzleep]

Completely different from Link. It's not even in the same dimension.

One character that might be similar is that guy in Devil May Cry 5 and I find him equally cringe, I'm glad I didn't actually pay for it.

[yamtaddle]

There's a really good story reason why she's Special and the Only Possible Savior. Much better than "Darth Vader was your daddy" or "you're the Boy Who Lived because your mom loved you a bunch and... that's it, that's all" at least.

[EDIT] As for those complaining about her personality, the sequel actually kinda explores that in some... interesting ways.

[Gareth321]

> Much better than "Darth Vader was your daddy"

That particular twist might seem contrived, especially by today's standards, but Luke had a story arc. He didn't appear in the world as a perfect being. He made many mistakes and earned his redemption and victory.

Similarly, Harry Potter had a story arc. He began completely unskilled and naive. He made many mistakes on his journey to competence.

Both of these examples are the antithesis of the Mary Sue trope. It sounds like you're confirming that Aloy was born a Mary Sue, and didn't have to earn the mantle like any good story arc demands.

[ska]

I think this is an idiosyncratic use of the trope “Mary Sue”, which isn’t really gendered, or wasn’t originally. Unless the usage has drifted a lot more that I’m aware of?

[FumblingBear]

I think there may be some linguistic drift here, because I've always heard of a male "Mary Sue" referred to as "Gary Stu".

[ska]

Huh, interesting. I think I recall running into that one also, but not consistently. The mis-match with GP usage are deeper than re-gendering the name though. Seems to me Mary Sue/Gary Stu is fundamentally about projection/wish fulfillment on the part of author (or in this case, player?), and has no real opinion on gender roles/relations/etc. GP seems to be adding a bunch of that; I’ve no opinion on whether or not the text (game) supports that take, but seems a bit orthogonal to the Mary Sue concept.

[Gareth321]

There are certainly examples of men embodying the Mary Sue trope. I'm highlighting the recent trend of women in the role.