[kokanee]

There are two things that engineers tend to neglect about validation experiences:

1) When you run the validation has a huge impact on UX. A field should not be marked as invalid until a blur event, and after that it should be revalidated on every keystroke. It drives people crazy when we show them a red input with an error message simply because they haven't finished typing their email address yet, or when we continue to show the error after the problem has been fixed because they haven't resubmitted the form yet.

2) Client side validation rules do occasionally diverge from server side validation rules. Requiring a phone number can be A/B tested, for example.

[emodendroket]

Even if you’re not A/B testing you’re going to have some validations that only happen server-side because they require access to resources the client doesn’t have, but I don’t see either of these points as arguments against sharing the validators that can be.

[kokanee]

I agree. These points are arguments against the philosophy of HTMX which asserts that you can get everything you need without client-side logic.

To be fair, I'm also not a fan of bloated libraries like React and Angular. I think we had it right 15-20 years ago: use the server for everything you can, and use the smallest amount of JS necessary to service your client-side needs.

[pphysch]

> HTMX which asserts that you can get everything you need without client-side logic.

That's not true at all. HTMX extends the logical capabilities of HTML, and _hyperscript goes even further.

[emodendroket]

It’s been a while since I did much frontend work but I actually found Angular revelatory. It makes it so easy and it’s really batteries-included.