[zelphirkalt]

> For instance, a major selling point of Node was running JS on both the client and server so you can write the code once. It's a pretty shitty client experience if you have to do a network request for each and every validation of user input.

Node does not absolve from this. Any important verification still needs to be done on the server side, since any JS on the client side cannot be trusted to not be manipulated. JS on the client side was of course possible before NodeJS. NodeJS did not add anything there regarding where one must verify inputs. Relying on things being checked in the frontend/client-side is just writing insecure websites/apps.

> We moved away for MPAs because they were bloated, slow and difficult to work with. SPAs have definitely become what they sought to replace.

I would claim they became even more so than the thing they replaced. Basically most of any progress in bandwidth or ressources is eaten by more bloat.

[obpe]

>Node does not absolve from this. Any important verification still needs to be done on the server side, since any JS on the client side cannot be trusted to not be manipulated. JS on the client side was of course possible before NodeJS. NodeJS did not add anything there regarding where one must verify inputs. Relying on things being checked in the frontend/client-side is just writing insecure websites/apps.

Yeah, that was my point. With Node you can write JS to validate on both the client and server. In the article, they suggest you can just do a server request whenever you need to validate user input.

>Basically most of any progress in bandwidth or ressources is eaten by more bloat.

In my experience, the bloat comes from Analytics and binary data (image/video) not functional code for the SPA. Unfortunately, the business keeps claiming it's "important" to them to have analytics... I don't see it but they pay my salary.

[zelphirkalt]

> In my experience, the bloat comes from Analytics and binary data (image/video) not functional code for the SPA. Unfortunately, the business keeps claiming it's "important" to them to have analytics... I don't see it but they pay my salary.

Similar to my experience. So glad I uBlock Origin a lot of unnecessary traffic. At some point it is not longer good taste, when the 5th CDN is requested, the 10th tracker script from random untrusted 3rd parties loaded ... All while neglecting good design of a website, making it implode, when you block their unwanted stuff. Not rare to save more than half the traffic, when blocking stuff.

[aidenn0]

The first SPA I wrote, I wrote in React for my use and for the use of friends. I spent about 3 days getting it working and then 3 months getting it to usable performance on my phone. There were no analytics, no binary data (100% text), just a bunch of editable values and such. I ended up having to split it up into a bunch of tabs just to reduce the size of the vdom.

[robertoandred]

"The size of the vdom" would not destroy performance like you're saying.

[aidenn0]

I've been told that before. Maybe it was something else; I don't know.

All I know is that I was unable to figure out what it was, and I bounced it off a few people online, and the performance scaled inversely with the number of DOM nodes.

[austinthetaco]

I would think you have something else wrong with the design. I've worked on some pretty complex and large react apps that worked flawlessly on some low-end mobile browsers. Maybe you're accidentally duplicating a LOT of dom nodes?

[tored]

SPAs transfers large amounts of data to the frontend to be able to do HTTP JOIN and then tosses most of it away.

[ladberg]

I feel like you misunderstood the OP, they are claiming that Node allows you to reuse the same code to do validation on both the client and the server. By definition that means they are also doing server-side validation, and they are not relying on it being checked on the frontend.

[PaulHoule]

As I see it though, node.js on the backend is not mainstream, most sites are still using JVM or other back ends. Using the same code for the front end and the back end is a dream that has been pursued in various forms but it isn’t mainstream.

[emodendroket]

Man... if you don't think node.js on the backend is mainstream at this point I don't know what to tell you. It's not even the hyped-up new thing anymore.

[sidlls]

Being not hyped up doesn’t mean it’s mainstream. Most backends are in Java, Go, or PHP. Python and Ruby take up most of those that aren’t. It’s rare to find node on the backend in comparison.

[emodendroket]

I don’t agree that Go is more common than node (or other options you did not mention like .NET).

[iainmerrick]

I wonder if part of the confusion here is that “backend” is pretty overloaded. There are backends like API servers, and web server backends (which at Google they call “frontends”!)

I’d guess that Go is relatively more popular than Node for API servers, and Node is more popular for web servers.

And as you note, both are probably less popular than languages like Java and PHP.

[cutler]

Go more ubiquitous than Node.js? In your dreams.

[austinthetaco]

according to the latest stackoverflow developer survey, NodeJS is extremely common and used quite a bit more than things like ASP.net (https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#most-popular-technolog...)

[shearos]

is node included when choosing front ends like react or vue?

[austinthetaco]

no. NodeJS is different than NPM (which is often used to install react/vue). NodeJS is the backend technology