[dragontamer]

> What it does do, though, is spur memetic investment, which can create a short term frenzy for some stocks but it is not a planned event

Erm... investing in a security, then trying to create a meme is a pump-and-dump scheme by any other name. You've just changed the name "pump" to "meme", rather than using old-school behaviors like boiler rooms.

Its even "meming" the same information: too the moon, or whatever. In the 90s, it was all cold calls over telephone, but today you can use online forums to do this.

[smcn]

I'd argue that is a very simplistic way of looking at it.

There is always a narrative as to why a stock will go "to the moon". You say it's explicitly a pump and dump and it's not really, no. Look at GME, the idea was to restrict the float so that when the shorts got exercised, they would be trying to buy shares that didn't exist, creating exponential demand which would increase the price significantly. Not an impossible feat[0].

The "memetic" part of it is purely information exchange. That's all. If that's the barrier for entry for being considered a pump and dump, then I'd say anything which reports on a companys action could be a pump and dump. From Financial Times, to Bloomberg, to Mad Money, to StockTwits, to whomever else.

0: https://internationalbanker.com/history-of-financial-crises/...

[xsmasher]

In what way is this different than a pump and dump? You tout the stock and say it's going to 5x, 10x, whatever because of X. Then the suckers buy. Then you sell.

[smcn]

Well, it's different because of whatever X is. X is the reason why the idea can spread through the community. It needs to make sense on some fundamental level in order to get past the onslaught of ridicule that every stock and member is subjected to.

If you say "ABC is going to increase 10x because it has a funny name" that obviously won't fly, but if you give a detailed account of why it is possible (this is called DD - due diligence), this has much more potential to excite people. I wouldn't classify open source intelligence as a pump and dump.

[dragontamer]

You mean like 'Save the stock market from big banks by buying GME?'

It was the biggest crock of $$$$ I've ever heard, no element of truth to it. But it meme'd really well.

[smcn]

I don't think anyone was trying to save the stock market. The general vibe was more fire and brimstone.

[dragontamer]

They made up a story about how short sellers were ruining the stock market and then tried to say that punishing them would save the stock market.

Or am I wrong in my assessment? Then the crowds ate it up and GME mooned. The pumpers then dumped and RoaringKitty became a millionaire.

[UncleEntity]

You buy a stock, post some “open source intelligence” to convince people they should also buy the stock and sell your shares before eventually you run out of people to convince to buy and the stock returns to “market value”.

I’m no Wall Street guru but that doesn’t sound like a pump and dump scheme at all.

Some of the other stuff they do is kind of funny in a “some people just want to watch the world burn” kind of way.

[smcn]

People certainly try but I don't think the community gets the credit it deserves. While it is certainly true that the majority are not seasoned investors, there are plenty in there that are able to be dissenting voices to these obvious attempts and these voices are heard and do shut down the threads.

It's not easy to make up artificial reasons as you will be forced to provide evidence for your claims. You need a solid base to build your argument and you better believe that you'll be fact checked in very aggressive ways.

But you don't need an account to view WSB, you are able to go browse it right now and see that it's mostly just stock market/economic news.

[lupire]

Your first paragraph explicitly describes a pump and a dump.

[dragonwriter]

> Well, it's different because of whatever X is. X is the reason why the idea can spread through the community. It needs to make sense on some fundamental level in order to get past the onslaught of ridicule that every stock and member is subjected to.

All pump-and-dumps have an X.

Having a narrative of how the thing you are pumping will go up is not a difference from other pump-and-dump schemes.

[smcn]

It definitely is. A pump and dump is a coordinated effort to artificially raise the price of a stock.

Posting technical analysis and/or positive news that encourages people to take a position is not a pump and dump. No more than any financial article that has ever been written.

[dragonwriter]

> A pump and dump is a coordinated effort to artificially raise the price of a stock.

And with what methods are such coordinated efforts carried out? By communicating a narrative intended to convince people that the stock will go up, so that the audience buys it and it does go up.

The narrative is the central element of the pump of a pump and dump.