[mey]

My litmus test for this is simple. Has the steering wheel been removed and the manufacturer taken all liability for at fault claims? Until then, I don't want a self driving car. If the mfg doesn't believe in the tech enough to own liability, how can I?

[burnished]

I think assuming liability is sufficient, calling for the removal of the steering wheel doesn't seem relevant.

[sixstringtheory]

By the time the calculus includes the savings of the steering wheel, column and other components, and the gear selector, mirror adjustment control, brake and accelerator pedals, and all the other systems that used to be needed by a human driver, autonomous driving (hopefully) would be really really good.

[fsckboy]

the mfer doesn't assume any liability right now, so even if their self driving technology dramatically lowers your risk, why would they assume any of that risk? I see the point you're making, sure, if they assumed all liability it would make sense for me to accept that deal, but they're not going to and it could still be a very very good idea for me to adopt the technology.

[michaelt]

> if they assumed all liability it would make sense for me to accept that deal, but they're not going to

Why not? Insurance companies will accept liability for my driving fuck-ups in exchange for a monthly payment. And doing so doesn't instantly bankrupt them or anything. Why shouldn't a self-driving car company do the same thing?

[fsckboy]

the insurance company makes money because you are willing to pay more to reduce your personal risk than it costs them to accept it (a dollar you lose is worth more to you than a dollar you gain, declining marginal utility of wealth; an asymmetry they make money on, especially considering a dollar lost to them is much less significant)

G*P didn't mention payments for accepting risk, he just said if they accepted liability.

[MystK]

That's an interesting perspective. Perhaps in the future, we'll have FSD car subscriptions that also include insurance, so if you're in an accident the car manufacturer will cover everything.

[nickthegreek]

I believe Mercedes has a car where they do assume some liability.

[wingspar]

Your steed awaits… /s

Mercedes Drive Pilot was to be liability for accidents, under a list of conditions, by the end of 2022

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-...

[fasthands9]

I also don't trust self-driving cars right now, but fwiw this would not be close to legal so not sure it makes the most sense as the litmus test.

[gpm]

Assuming liability should be legal. That's literally what insurance does.

[taneq]

Yeah but the legal environment isn’t the reason they still have steering wheels.

[fnordpiglet]

I use full self driving for long highway trips. I do however take the advice of the manufacturer and stay fully alert. It has caught situations where some bonehead is drifting into my lane or changing lanes without noticing me, and I didn’t notice them fast enough, and braked avoiding an accident. Like wise I’ve noticed it make mistakes and asserted control. My estimation is the joint probability of the model catching a dangerous situation and me catching it is significantly better than me alone. It also is able to navigate through confusing interchanges that I normally screw up by taking the second exit of four instead of the third or whatever.

I think a litmus test of “perfect” is a fair test, but leaves a lot of value uncounted in the mean time.

I think perhaps ignoring essentially everything Elon musk says and does and judge based on what’s in front of you is what works for me in not getting baited into the “is the Tesla FSD sentient and can do my taxes” hype cycle, with its requisite jadedness.

[krupan]

Check out the Cruise Origin