[kaon123]

And the production of these drugs is still illegal, which has led to a big increase in (the wealth of) organised crime, similar to how the Maffia was spawned during the prohibition.

I am not joking. In the Netherlands a druglord has ordered the assassination of one of its most famous journalists, and has blackmailed one of the most renowned lawyers to break the law. The netherlands exports $20bn (!!!) worth of MDMA and XTC per year. Where do you think these criminal instutions come from?

[whimsicalism]

Yes, Europe is well-known for its intense organized crime.

I doubt cannabis legalization would have much impact on this - the big organized crime control things like the cocaine & opioid trade.

Looking up the assassination you mentioned, it looks like it was perpetuated by cocaine-dealing organized crime.

Also, what is XTC?

[alephnerd]

Ecstasy. It's a party drug that's extremely popular in the rave scene.

[whimsicalism]

But that's the same as MDMA?

[ShortStretto]

XTC usually refers to MDMA in pill form, used to be contaminated/mixed with some other additives but it's largely MDMA these days.

Source https://www.drugsinfo.nl/xtc/wat-je-moet-weten-over-xtc

[beepbooptheory]

In high school (as a bad kid) we used to get all sorts of different "ecstasy" pills with nicknames like "blue ladies" or "bugs bunnies" or whatever. You never quite knew what it was going to be like, or whether even the blue lady you had this time was even the same as the one you had last time. Looking back, the spectrum of effects we would get were definitely due to whether they were cut with uppers or downers. It ranged from more typical emotional experiences you attribute to ecstasy (cocaine/meth), to more "body high" ones which were probably opiates of some sort.

Am very happy to hear this kind of thing is more rare. Not that street users have too much more assurance either way the MDMA they are getting is in fact MDMA, but hopefully thar whatever analogues there are now are a little better than meth or heroin.

[chimeracoder]

> Am very happy to hear this kind of thing is more rare. Not that street users have too much more assurance either way the MDMA they are getting is in fact MDMA, but hopefully thar whatever analogues there are now are a little better than meth or heroin.

Almost all Ecstasy/MDMA outside a pharmaceutical setting is adulterated, usually with other amphetamines. The degree of adulteration varies, and in some cases it may not be very noticeable by the user, but it's incredibly rare to find pure MDMA outside of a pharmaceutical setting.

Methamphetamine is one of the most common adulterants. (This is a bit of a misnomer, because MDMA is itself actually a methamphetamine, but it's not the one most people are referring to when they say "meth").

[chimeracoder]

> XTC usually refers to MDMA in pill form, used to be contaminated/mixed with some other additives but it's largely MDMA these days.

Ecstasy is almost never pure. While the degree of contamination varies and may not be subjectively noticeable by the user, the vast majority of ecstasy has some degree of adulterants in it, often other amphetamines, and sometimes other substances altogether.

[fathyb]

MDMA is the chemical name, like ethanol is the chemical name for alcoholic beverages.

[whimsicalism]

Seems like an imperfect analogy because straight MDMA would be called ecstacy whereas straight ethanol would not be called beer or wine.

My understanding had always been the two were synonymous.

[beardedetim]

In my party days,I always understood MDMAas being pure MDMA while X was MDMA mixed with coke, meth, or heroin to make the drug effects last longer, as the half life of MDMA is smaller than those other three.

[kirill5pol]

From sounding out “XTC”, I’m assuming it means ecstasy.

[toyg]

> Europe is well-known for its intense organized crime.

Lol, like it weren't the case pretty much everywhere else... Anywhere there is a significant amount of humans, there is "intense organized crime" too; any difference in outcomes is largely due to how authorities decide to address it.

[whimsicalism]

Organized crime exists in the US but has basically been destroyed at the higher-levels by RICO and intensive federal enforcement.

By contrast, there are parts of Italy where 75%+ of businesses are reported paying protection payments to organized crime.

[piva00]

The drug trade in the US is one of the most profitable in the world. Organised crime is behind it, there's no way that organised crime in the US has been destroyed at higher-levels, crime organisations still bring all the cocaine, MDMA, heroin and so on into the country, it's not small scale operations doing that.

[whimsicalism]

Fair enough, the cartels are modern American organized crime, but most of their operational bits are south of the border.

[toyg]

Yeah, after all everyone knows that prostitution rings, human trafficking, arm dealing, illegal lending, etc etc, they all run themselves. Time to disband all the dedicated police units then.

[tokai]

The model the Netherlands use is a bad choice. They didn't legalize but decriminalized use.

[johnnyjeans]

Most things aren't decriminalized, just psychedelic truffles (which are legal) and cannabis. Official policy is to tolerate everything, unless someone is being a nuisance.

The Netherlands is an interesting case. Despite amphetamine, MDMA, etc. being illegal, The Hague has turned a blind eye to massive industrial production farms in the south. At one point, the Netherlands almost held a monopoly on the world's MDMA production. Rumors of conspiracy suggest it's intentional, but the end result is the same. Many of these drugs are de facto legal, if not de jure. Of course, this was the landscape some decades ago. It's been changing. Mexican cartels are starting to elbow in, and it's been causing "problems". Watching how the government reacts to the evolving ecosystem is going to be intriguing.

[simonswords82]

But I thought Portugal did the same (decriminalise) and by all accounts they've had fantastic results?

[tokai]

As I understand it they had fantastic results for the health and life outcomes for addicts. Never heard anything about it bringing change to the actual drug market and criminal groups.

[jonathankoren]

I'd be curious to hear about Portugal's experience since it's been 20+ years since mass decriminalization. Whatever novelty effect is long past, and we now have a generation that grew up with the liberal policies. My quick search found articles written right after saying everything was going great, and obvious propaganda say that Portugal was nothing but a heroin den with everyone strung out everywhere.

[monksy]

Netherlands there are legitmate places to buy weed. Portugal, dealers will hassle you on the street (probably with fake stuff)

[sidewndr46]

I'm familiar with the meaning of MDMA, but is XTC some new street name for "ecstasy"

[lwn]

Ecstasy is usually shortened as "XTC", "E" or "X"

[johnnyjeans]

not new at all

[whimsicalism]

Maybe not new, but not very common in the US. And further confusing given that MDMA & XTC are synonyms then.

[mason55]

The term "XTC" was a lot more common in the 90s rave scene.

As far as being synonyms, people generally differentiate between "ecstasy"/"E" as MDMA in pill form and "molly" as MDMA in powder form.

[madhato]

I've always heard that MDMA refers to pure MDMA, while E refers to MDMA that has been cut with something. Must be a colloquial thing.

[whimsicalism]

Fascinating, I just call it all molly.

But maybe that's because I grew up in a time where you can send stuff to a lab to confirm what it is.

[m4jor]

molly is pure MDMA

XTC aka ecstacy is MDMA + additives like speed or caffeine/whatever.