[leononame]

I'm really looking for a good ergonomic keyboard right now (split or non-split). I'm using Redox, but the bamboo case is falling apart and sometimes I miss F-keys (it'd be nice to one-shot steps during debugging rather than having to press a key combination) or a physical numpad (for entering numbers I prefer the numpad, but I just don't love switching layers).

The Ergo K860 looks nice. I've also been eyeing the Kinesis Advantage 360, though it has no F-Keys. Another option would be the Glove80. The MS/Logitech keyboards are super cheap in comparison. Would you say not having ortholinear keys is a big difference for ergonomics?

[microtonal]

Would you say not having ortholinear keys is a big difference for ergonomics?

I don't think there is much proof in terms of scientific studies that column stagger is better (column stagger is usually preferable over ortholinear), so can only really give my personal experience. I strongly prefer column stagger, I can still type row stagger and sometimes use my laptop's keyboard when I travel, but all these lateral movements feel awkward now.

I've also been eyeing the Kinesis Advantage 360

The 360 is really nice (I have a 360 Pro), but I'd order it somewhere where you can return it easily (eg. Kinesis themselves). For me, the Gateron Browns in the 360 are quite a large regression compared to the Cherry Browns in the Advantage2. The Gaterons are smoother, but their actuation point is way lower. Gateron specs say 2mm, but it's closer to 3mm in practice. This makes typing on the 360 quite tiring for me. So it's mostly collecting dust currently (I am using the Advantage2 and the Model 100 most of the time). But this is really personal, some other people do like the Gateron switches.

I wrote up a short review of the 360 Pro here:

https://danieldk.eu/Posts/2023-04-15-Advantage-360-Pro.html

[goosedragons]

I really like my regular Kinesis Advantage 2 which does have F-keys although admittedly small ones. I don't use them too much. They are easy to reach which I like though.

I think having Ortho layout makes using the numpad on the Kinesis a lot better. The big ergo benefit to me is the thumb clusters and the fact I can remap keys like (),[],{},~ to be easier to press. I have setup the "delete" key on the thumb cluster to be a layer shift and moved symbols to easier to press fingers than ridiculous pinky extensions. The numpad is also easy to use since I just hit delete and then it's already under my right hand and I don't have to move it. Since it's Ortho it feels like a numpad. Previously I never really used the numpad because I didn't like moving my hand over but now most of my numbers are typed that way.

I don't think MS/Logitech boards go far enough even in the split department.

[cduzz]

I've found that the best "split" keyboard is simply to use two decent keyboards on the same computer. When I am in a situation where I'm doing tons of typing (not that often anymore) I'll have the two keyboards a bit more than a body width apart. Unfortunately macos doesn't apply modifier keys (shift / meta / ctl) from one device to the other (IE if I press left shift on the left keyboard I don't get a capital L if I press it on the right keyboard). Windows did this just fine.

For just general sysadmining around, one keyboard's been fine for me. Frequent breaks, standing up and moving, etc, have much more of an impact on fatigue than the quality of the keyboard. That said, I've found that the 1990s model M4-1 to be an absolutely spectacular keyboard.

[goosedragons]

Can you use something like Karabiner Elements to fuse the two keyboards together into one virtual one? I do something similar on Linux with mice for middle mouse button scrolling since my Ploopy Nano doesn't have buttons.

[cduzz]

In my youth I'd endlessly try to optimize things. You should see my fvwm setup. "Chef's kiss" perfection.

Regarding 2 keyboards -- mostly it just works. Try it. If you're like me you probably have a stack of random garbage keyboards within 30 feet of wherever you've got your work desk. Plug 'em in and type away. For me, anyhow, it works just fine - my left hand doesn't actually need to be within a foot of my right hand.

[microtonal]

I don't think MS/Logitech boards go far enough even in the split department.

I agree that the split of the Advantage is nicer. However, the MS/Logitech boards do not only split, they also put the halves at an angle, compensating quite a bit for their relatively narrow split. There are some papers that investigate these compromises.

In the end it depends on the amount that you want to spend. A 420 Euro Advantage2 is probably going to be better. But the Microsoft/Logitech/Alice boards are a good compromise if you do not want to spend more than 100-200 Euro on a keyboard. Though at the 200 price point it's probably better to stretch it a little and get something split and tented like the Freestyle Edge, which sometimes goes for 200 + 30 for the tenting set from some vendors.

(Sometimes you get lucky, I found a mint Keyboardio Model 100 on a local marketplace for 150 Euro with the octo feet. It's over 500 Euro after VAT and shipping when you import it to The Netherlands.)