[nawgz]

> College degrees don’t seem to have done anything to make the police less abusive

Sorry, but can we try to talk in facts?

In Canada, since 2000, there have been 704 police-involved deaths [0].

Let's take a conservative population of 30M for Canada (which will inflate this stat) - then we get: 704 / 22 / 30M => 1 in 1 million Canadians die at the hands of police per year

On the other hand, in the US, there were 1022 police shootings in 2022 alone [1].

1022 / 331M => 3 in 1 million Americans are SHOT by police per year.

There's already a >3x discrepancy while using only US police shootings vs all Canadian police-involved deaths, and I'm sure the police killed plenty of people with tasers, beatings, and negligence in the US in 2022 too.

So, in general, I disagree with your claim that university education hasn't done anything to make Canadian police better than US police, and it's unlikely you'll change that opinion unless you bring some statistics into this conversation.

[0]: https://newsroom.carleton.ca/story/police-involved-deaths-ca... [1]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...

[augment003]

Erm, your argument has nothing to do with college degrees at all. You’re just saying Canadian police shoot less people than American police, which nobody is disputing.

[nawgz]

> your argument has nothing to do with college degrees at all

What I'm saying is pretty obvious, but I'll spell it out for you.

1. Canadian and American cultures are extremely homogenous

2. Canadian and American police have few differences, but a critical one is the Canadian-only requirement of university degrees

3. With no other clearly-defined drivers of police culture differentiation across the border, we see that US police are probably 4-8x more lethal than Canadian police per capita

So, since the police is clearly not about to properly train their people, let's not dismiss the value of a university degree as a filter, since it appears from a high level view that a university degree could serve to make a police officer 1/5th as likely to kill a citizen compared to a diploma.

Will you propose a different reason why US police are so much deadlier, related to crime statistics or otherwise, or will you just continue to say "the police should train their people", not hold them to account for not training their people, and also excuse them for dropping educational requirements that served in lieu of that training?

[augment003]

So, you are actually claiming that the reason American police shoot more people than Canadian police is because Canadian police have college degrees and American police do not?

Even if your premises were correct, it wouldn’t be worth trying to debate that further.

Hint: They aren’t. Do some research on what percentage of US police have college degrees, and what percentage of Canadian police have college degrees. It isn’t what you think.

Also, you might want to look at the demographics of who police shoot in the US, and inform yourself of the differences between Canadian gun culture and the US.

[nawgz]

> You might want to look at the demographics of who police shoot in the US

Canadian police are also quite racist, but if you're arguing that "less educated American cops are more racist", that tracks pretty nicely with "please don't accept less educated cops"

> you are actually claiming that the reason American police shoot more people than Canadian police is because Canadian police have college degrees and American police do not?

Do you have a different explanation?

> Do some research on what percentage of US police have college degrees

According to [0], the breakdown of US officer max education of no college/college diploma/undergrad/grad is:

* 49/20/25/5

> and what percentage of Canadian police have college degrees

And, according to [1], for Canadian officers, it's:

* 19/51/29/1.6

Quite a disparity. Especially when you consider sources like [2][3], which argue that:

> "Studies have found that a small proportion of police officers – about 5% – produce most citizen complaints, and officers with a two-year degree are about half as likely to be in the high-rate complaint group"

Overall, I believe there's lots of evidence suggesting more educated police are better police and citizens, and none suggesting the opposite - that less educated police are better.

Across the board, Canadian police are significantly better educated, with the exception of less Graduated degrees.

Across the board, Canadian police are less deadly to their citizens.

Not a coincidence - go ahead and say some more stupid shit though.

[0]: https://www.nu.edu/blog/law-enforcement-education [1]: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2015001/article... [2]: https://theconversation.com/5-reasons-police-officers-should... Source of the quote [3]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472... Source of the info behind the quote, paywalled

[fauxpause_]

This butchering of statistical reasoning is so poor I have to assume it is a troll

But in case it’s genuine, consider vast differences in gun ownership, homicide rate, and… honestly so many other things it’s just annoying to list them.

[nawgz]

> consider vast differences

I did.

Gun ownership is about 32% of individuals in USA vs 25% of individuals in Canada.

Homicide rate is about 2.5x higher in the US, which means US cops are outperforming this statistic vs US civilians.

> so many other things

It's not just annoying to list them, it's ridiculous; these countries are the exact same place. Across the board, everything you can think of has a lot of statistical homogeneity between these places. But Canadian cops are way better educated, and kill way less.

Around the world, cops that are better educated kill way less.

So why exactly are people excusing reductions in education requirements for police? It makes no sense. There's no supporting evidence that that's a good choice, and literal mountains showing that it's a bad one.

This thread is bizarro world.

[fauxpause_]

Your analysis is just dumb. You’re implying this is the only difference. You’re implying the entire outcome difference could be due to this one variable. You have shown no evidence to suggest this relationship exists at all. Like, for example looking at other countries. You’re implying that one thing has to account for the entire effect as a linear relationship by saying homicide rate being 2.5x is not important or that they’re “over performing in spite of it”. But you want one? Fine. Cops killed on duty. About 10x in the US. That settles your desire for a linear relationship on a compelling alternative story. Is that actually a sufficient analysis? No.

You get an F for intro to stats. And an F- for being confidently wrong.

There is no “excusing” reductions in education. You have not demonstrated a relationship between these two things as important.

[augment003]

Have you considered handguns as a factor?

[nawgz]

Handguns are the most interesting statistic here, with the US being a serious outlier (58%! vs 12% in Canada), it could be related

I still don't see how you deny that more educated officers are less violent when I've made multiple links supporting that argument

[giantg2]

Crime rates, prevalence of firearms, etc are major differences which could account for the discrepancy. Many police in the US are required to have 60 credits minimum in college education (associates degree equivalent).

If you want to really look into this, legitimately, the best thing to do would be to compare use police to each other based on education. This is likely hard to do. However, state-level requirements and deaths could be compared between states with similar crime/murder rates.

[JumpCrisscross]

> Will you propose a different reason why US police are so much deadlier

Guns. 1.2 per American, 0.35 per Canadian [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...

[nawgz]

That's not a very good argument - those guns are concentrated in the hands of about 32% of the US population [0], whereas in Canada it's probably closer to 25% [1]. [1] says "[t]he overall rate of firearm ownership is at least 241 per 1,000 population and is comparable to ownership rates in other countries where hunting is a significant activity"

[0]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own... [1]: https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/jsp-sjp/wd98_4-d...

[augment003]

Seems like you don’t know there’s a difference between handguns and hunting rifles.

[jpadkins]

Compare Canada to Vermont, NH, Wisconsin, Montana and Idaho and see if your difference still holds. USA is a big place, with very different cultures and outcomes. Once you compare Canada to states that are culturally like Canada, your university hypothesis doesn't look to be correct.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/police-kill...

[nawgz]

Can you provide more sources that show Police education by state? While I don't disagree with the premise you are suggesting in and of itself, the link you've provided is entirely insufficient to make the calculations about police education and per capita police violence rate

I found [0], which in Appendix F has a state-by-state breakdown for only some states. Cross referencing it with your data source is useless, all the top states for per-capita police killings have their data omitted from that table.

[0]: https://www.policinginstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10...