[asebold]

This is so, so important for helping family farms stay alive.

The amount my family has saved by being able to fix and even modify stuff on their own is huge. My dad still mows our lawn with an antique Allis-Chalmers hooked up to a commercial mower. Equipment is wildly expensive compared to margins at smaller scales (think like 2k acres for small farms). Things need to last for decades or generations in order to keep a profit.

[z_jdav]

2000 acres is a "small" "family" farm?? The myth of farming in the United States far over-estimates the where the _value_ in farming lies. Yes, John Deere is exploitative - but what about the wealthy land owners that profit off the backs of poorly paid _farm workers_? Or the huge government subsidies paid to growers of commodity grain? The idea of the "family farm" as a productive and legitimate sector of the economy is mostly a myth[0].

[0] See "Farm and other F words" by Sarah Mock for a more complete treatment.

[alvah]

This only seems large by European standards I think. The 50-100 acre farms in my homeland are a relic of pre-industrial times, and can't be competitive in a world market without vast EU subsidies.

[freddie_mercury]

It is large by American standards.

The USDA says that only 4% of farms in America are 2,000 acres or larger.

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Highlights/2019/2017C...

The average farm in America is 446 acres, according to the USDA.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/ag-and-food-statistic...

The OP is completely out of touch thinking that 2,000 acres is small.

[cyanydeez]

>Since 1974, the Census of Agriculture has defined a farm as any place from which $1,000 or more of agricultural products were produced and sold, or normally would have been sold, during the census year.

That's a weird definition.

Acres of contiguous land controlled by a single owner is how people tend to use the word farm.

In reality, farmers are often equipment owners and negotiate with landowners to manage X acres.

None of this discussion is worth wile in referencing farms.

Best could be said : a farmer who has to service equipment equal to a 400 acre farm benefits by laws protecting their farm equipment.

[alvah]

Here in Western Australia, the average cropped area per farm is almost 3,000 acres. From my perspective, 2,000 acres is a small-ish farm, and the 50-100 acre farms surrounding my parents' house in Scotland are comically small, heavily-subsidised gardens.

GP may be wrong about the USA as a whole, though I'm sure there are areas of the US where 2,000 acres would indeed be a small farm.

[rendaw]

Do you have any references on small farm size efficiency? In Japan ~90% are < 50 acre both by land mass and count, and seeing the 100m^2 farms in my neighborhood I can't believe it's anywhere near efficient, even when sharing farm equipment.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/agricultural-land-area-by... https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-farms-size?country...

[throw0101b]

Japan has a bunch of issues with agriculture and too-small farms is part of it:

* https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/11/25/japan-strugg...

* https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/japans-farms-wea...

* https://thediplomat.com/2014/09/japans-agriculture-dilemma/

Small family farms are good when a country is still developing and has excess labour, but once industrialization gets going folks move to urban areas for factory jobs and farms need to consolidate and mechanize. This has been the story over history for all countries have been 'developed', and in the post-WW2 is generally true of Japan, Korea, and Taiwan. Though this mechanization never really happened in Japan.

How Asia Works: Success and Failure in the World's Most Dynamic Region goes over this quite well:

* https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16144575-how-asia-works

[diordiderot]

You can operate a 2000 acre farm with 4 people. That's a family farm bub.

[asebold]

Exactly, thank you.

Also, let’s be clear: we’re talking about the US. I’m sure it’s different in other countries.

[cyanydeez]

There's an issue with how the census defined a farm.

[throw0101b]

> 2000 acres is a "small" "family" farm??

The 'farm vlogger' channel Laura Farms operates a 2000 acres (800 hectares; 8 sq. km) farm:

* https://www.youtube.com/@LauraFarms/videos

[ackbar03]

I'm pretty sure this is what led to communism

[freddie_mercury]

2,000 acres is the top 4% of farm sizes.

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Highlights/2019/2017C...

By way of comparison, a top 4th-percentile income is $205,000 a year.

Saying 2,000 acres is a small farm is like saying $205,000 a year salary is low-income.

[asebold]

I’m sorry but this is sorely misguided.

How many of the farms surveyed are the owner and operator’s full time job? How many of those farms are owned and operated by multiple families at the same time?

Farming in the US is nothing like a corporate job, or even most small businesses, for reasons I just don’t have the time to share. Your comparison to income for the general population…doesn’t work.

Farms with 2k acres or less are indeed small, family run operations. Especially if you only farm cash crops. These are the kinds of farms that rely on right-to-repair the most. Not the homesteader family with 16 acres and some goats.

Sorry all, your idea of what most full-time, successful, multi-generational farming operations in the US looks like is simply not accurate.

[diordiderot]

I know dozens of people that have a few goats or who 'farm' hay for the tax benefits.

[Sytten]

2000 acres is not a small farm period. For context the price per acre where I live (centre of Quebec, Canada) is 15k$. So 30M$ for 2k acres, it's an industrial farm that need employees (at least one or two if it's a highly automated crop) and can afford the price of brand new John deer. You can even afford a Combine harvester at that size. Our farm is around 120 acres and we definitely cannot.

[gduplessy]

That really depends where you live, since this thread is about Colorado:

>The 2021 Colorado average farmland real estate value, a measurement of the value >of all land and buildings on farms, was $1,610 per acre. This is an increase of >1.3 percent from 2020 and 2.5 percent from 2019.

So we're talking $3.2mm today and by what the person you replied to said, I'm betting that his family bought that land a very long time ago.

I'm not a farmer by any means, but I just did a quick search for land in Colorado and I'm even seeing ~2,400 acres on sale for $1.7mm today. There's 15,000 acres listed for $2.1mm. I mention not being a farmer because I don't know if those lands are viable for anything.

[egberts1]

2,000 acres of highly-automated 4-employer farm nets an income of $240,000 USD per year. John Deere equipments all cost more than that.

Furthermore, computerizing farm implements means shorter life span for its equipments.

Probably why older cars are lasting longer than newer ones. Computer chip failure of a 20-yo car means a trip to the wrecking yard to get that chip or get totaled; 40-yo car, not as much.

[diordiderot]

Do you only buy a house or car valued less than your annual income or do you finance it?

[egberts1]

Can a middle-class or poor family afford a brand-new leased Mercedes Benz every two years?

[diordiderot]

No, that's why you buy a regular car

[egberts1]

Can you buy a regular tractor?

[Andys]

Plus farming is often time-sensitive and you need to repair equipment with what you have on-hand, not have to wait for parts or repairers.

[SalmoShalazar]

What does your dad saving money on mowing his lawn have to do with farms with 2000 acres of property?

[foxyv]

Both use equipment that needs to be repaired. Isn't that in the title?