[bheadmaster]

I like meat. Vegetables just don't cut it. Eating meat is one of the few pleasures in my life, and I'm not willing to give it up for some vague ideal.

I'd assume a lot of people think the same way. It could be considered somewhat arrogant to demand everyone to give up their personal pleasures for something you believe in.

We could solve all world's problems by collectively killing ourselves, but obviously we don't want to do that. Giving up things is somewhere on the spectrum between giving up our life and not giving up anything. Who gets to decide where the line is for everyone?

[hcarvalhoalves]

> We could solve all world's problems by collectively killing ourselves,

Don't worry, we're in the process of that.

[goaheaddownvote]

I'll just keep saying it in this thread, but not once did I say everyone should give up meat. In fact I said go at it, go hunt and kill and eat it!

But the fact that people feel defensive whenever the thought of vegetarianism comes up to me points to the fact that deep down people on an individual level know that it is, to some degree, wrong.

[bheadmaster]

You called for introducing meat eating license, which would introduce friction and make people eat less meat. The end game is the same, the mechanism is different.

> But the fact that people feel defensive whenever the thought of vegetarianism comes up to me points to the fact that deep down people on an individual level know that it is, to some degree, wrong.

Maybe. Or maybe people just feel discomfort because of all the people who are trying to dictate to them what they can and cannot eat.

[qqqwerty]

No one is forcing you to give up meat, and no one is forcing you to engage in this thread. The status quo of meat consumption is firmly entrenched in our society and if anything getting stronger (see the rise of the carnivore diet for example) and yet when someone on the internet seriously believes in the opposite and laments the hopelessness of the situation, they get bombarded by dozens of meat eaters with comments about how vegans look sick, meat is essential, etc...

Can you not see where the OP is coming from? Do you have any sympathy towards them? They seriously believe that meat eating is wrong, and yet when the mention that on the internet in a thread about antibiotic overuse, they got bombarded by pro-meat commenters.

[bheadmaster]

> They seriously believe that meat eating is wrong

I seriously believe that meat eating is right. They can voice their beliefs, and I can voice mine. I don't really see the issue.

Are you saying vegetarians are tired of people telling them that what they believe is wrong? :)

[qqqwerty]

For context, I eat meat too. And what I am saying (and to some extent the OP is saying) is that on balance, vegetarianism is more ethical and sustainable than meat eating. There is of course some nuance to it, i.e eating factory farmed meat is a lot worse than eating meat that you hunted or raised humanely. But for the most part, vegetarianism wins.

I am man enough to admit that, and I own up to the fact that my meat consumption is the less ethical choice. But a lot of posters on this thread seem to have fragile egos and instead of owning it, make up a bunch of half baked excuses why eating meat is the better choice.

[bheadmaster]

> I am man enough to admit that, and I own up to the fact that my meat consumption is the less ethical choice. But a lot of posters on this thread seem to have fragile egos and instead of owning it, make up a bunch of half baked excuses why eating meat is the better choice.

So, you hold a belief, you consider it "the right belief" (ethically speaking) and then you even pat yourself on the back for being "man enough" to hold your belief, implying that anyone who doesn't agree with you couldn't possibly have any other reason to, but is simply "not enough of a man" to agree with you, and has a small peni... ahem, I meam, fragile ego?

I'm sorry man, but that only makes me think of you as a narcissistic virtue signaller. I don't care if you think I'm "not man enough", "ethically evil", or whatever evaluation of me as a person you come up with, I like meat and no amount of shaming will make me pretend I don't. If you wonder why people hate vegetarians, this holier-than-thou attitude might be one of the reasons.

If you want to convince people of ethical superiority of your beliefs, it might help to just stick to the cold facts. E.g. what framework of ethics you're starting from, and how does it make vegetarianism more ethical.

[bioemerl]

> . In fact I said go at it, go hunt and kill and eat it!

This is a strange and unreasonable argument that's just designed to eliminate all meat, and not a good faith stance.