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by ginger2016 1150 days ago
Glad to see ancient Iranian culture featured here. People in the west have a lot of misconceptions about Iran. Persian culture is thousands of years old.
5 comments

Iranian culture is beautiful. Food, architecture, music, literature. All corrupted by the ayatollah and fanatic religious powers that dominate the country. It is unfair to blame the west for its misconceptions when the outward presentation of that country is currently so anti-western, corrupt, and oppressive.
They were replacing a West installed dictator... Don't know if it's entirely the Ayatollah's fault here.
It's been 44 years, I think we need to stop giving countries a pass like this, at a certain point, their destiny is their own.
You do realize that western policies to this day have emboldened the mullahs in power? These sanctions just increase their control, and US govt obviously knows it. So much border trade occurs in spite of the actions, and mullahs garner more control. Nuclear deal was another case.
The Iranian regime is absolutely brutal at repressing revolt, the revolts are also violent but of course nothing can match a state apparatus that has to shut the country to the outside world to hide the massacre; the country has been in a state of civil unrest for the better part of the past 6 years and I count the Wikipedia estimates at some 4000 dead from the response of state actors.
Yeah, why haven't they overthrown a brutally repressive regime? Haven't they heard of Ghandi?

Please - don't do this. You don't know how hard it is for revolutions to succeed

For all of those 44 years, the US has been continuously sanctioning, attacking, isolating, and threatening Iran.
Maybe if they didn't sponsor terrorism around the world, while oppressing their own people, they wouldn't get sanctioned? The find out part of fuck around doesn't mean they don't control their own destiny. Plenty of normal countries to look at for example.
The Us is a terrorist supporting inhumane regime that puts a pretense of being moral on the world stage. In reality it’s a very rotten country internally and as an American I really hope we can change that but all evidence seems opposite.
That's a weak argument, as we (the West) sponsor many terrorist or oppressive regimes as long as it is in our economic or political interest. The US sponsored brutal and even genocidal regimes from Guatemala to Timor.

Talking about morality and "fighting terrorism and oppression" is laughable.

Counties live in the shadow of things that happened thousands of years ago... 44 years is barely a generation.
There was no installation. Please stop repeating IRI's propaganda line. Iranian society was divided between nationalists, fundamentalists, and communists.

The "Ayatollah's" in fact started the mess by assassinating the previous prime minister (who is never discussed) who was also "democratically elected". This was not the first Islamist terror in Iran. Again this is before the counter-coup of '53. (Yes, the first coup detat was by the famous "democratically elected PM", Mr. Mossadeqh.)

Iran had a constitution that precisely defined the roles of the Majlis (parliament) and the monarch. This monarch was sworn in as king in the Majlis way before '53. Kindly explain how he was "installed" in '53 by the CIA.

The "Islamic Republic" is a blight in the history of Iran and Islam. Their little project of creating the Islamist Vatican is an abomination in Islam. Their ridiculous "Supreme Leader" is another abomination, both for Iran and again for Islam. Islam is the religion of deliberation of assemblies and no man is "supreme" amongst the Muslims.

The CIA literally admitted to master-minding and funding the coup

Weird that anyone is still in denial after that

The CIA is an intelligence agency and has no obligation to tell the truth.
> This monarch was sworn in as king in the Majlis way before ’53. Kindly explain how he was “installed” in ’53 by the CIA.

Basically, the Shah assumed direct rule in an autocoup (after a first failed autcoup) in an effort he was threatened with being deposted by the CIA into participating in, with US- and UK- and their Iranian pawns both orchestrating pro-Mossadegh anti-Shah demonstrations and violence, then pro-Communist anti-Shah anti-Mossadegh demonstrations and violence, and, ultimately, the pro-Shah military moves directed against the waves of violence and lawlessness that they themselves had sponsored.

The extent of Shah's concessions to US security concerns was allowing CIA to create monitoring stations north of Iran: listening posts. A section of the secret service in Iran (SAVAK) was specifically tasked with keeping tabs on Western intelligence in Iran. The second one, which was withdrawn after public pushback lead by Khomeini, was exempting American servicemen and workers (mostly aerospace in Isfahan) from legal jeopardy for any offences in Iran. That was rather toady.

Former enemies:

https://www.mofa.go.jp/region/n-america/us/q&a/ref/2.html

"Cousins":

https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/176895/SN06808.pdf

(it's a question of power asymmetries. Really did the poor Shah have any choice? Related thoughts: Is the Japanese PM "Installed" by US? Is the UK PM a "puppet" of US?)

And to be quite frank, as an Iranian born, the assertion that some American (Kermit Roosevelt) gets off the plane with a briefcase full of dollars and overnight "installs" the constitutional king of Iran is bascially a hidden insult to Iranians. What sort of a entirely pushover nation are they, these Iranians? It's a bad propaganda joke.

Secondly, the fact remains that the roughly 14 years (60s-early70s) that Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, yes as an autocract oversteppingn the bounds of the constitution, ran the place, Iran experienced its singularly most spectacular years in the 20th century. And the social progress, specially women's rights, are all due to the efforts of that man and his "regime".

US has nothing to apologize to Iran about viz a vis the Shah other than backstabbing a loyal ally in a time of crisis, and actively helping to usher in an entirely alien system, the "Islamic Republic of Iran"*, to power.

US chose Islamic Fundamentalism as a stretegic tool to further its geopolitical goals, and unleashed the hords on the world. US does need to come clean about that.

* (3 lies in one name, a world record!): It is not a republic. It is not Islam. And it certainly is not Iranian.

You can’t ethically sweep the atrocities of the Shah under the rug like kashf-e-hijab, and excuse him for merely overstepping a constitution. He attacked the fabric of Iranian society and humiliated the nation for the sake of pleasing Western masters. There’s very clear reason Iran ended up the way it did, and people who have the fantasy of returning to the shah era for “women’s rights” are really not thinking logically. Actually if you think the shah forcing women to uncover and make Iranian society naked was “women’s rights”, you are severely misguided.
This is so true. The original Persian culture is best preserved in India among the dwindling Parsi community. These are the original Persians who escaped to Gujarat, India during the Islamic colonization of Persia.
This isn't true at all. For hundreds of years, Parsis were almost purely culturally Gujarati. Also there's limited evidence that they "escaped", Zoroastrianism still had a large presence in Fars for a while after the Muslim conquest, and they were going to some of the largest mercantile ports in the world. Also there were lots of muslims that came from Iran to these ports as well.
I agree. Not to mention Farsi has some of the most beautiful proverbs.
Just a minor pet peeve but why not keep calling the language "Persian" in English? Just how it doesn't feel entirely right to suddenly start calling Spanish "Español" in English, or Swedish as "Svenska" and so on
If they ever wanted to increase tourism, just consider:

1. Would you like to visit Persia?

2. Would you like to visit Iran?

It is so unfortunate. I am from Iran and I much prefer the current name. It's an ancient name that includes not only Persians, but also Medians, Partians, etc. Iran has been multi cultural since old times and it's nice to have an inclusive name. I believe after we throw the occupiers (mullahs) out, we have a lot of work to do.

The only weird thing with the name Iran, is that it literally means "The Land of Aryans" which got a bad rep after Nazis (rightfully so).

If you ever get a chance, read “the education of Cyrus” by Xenophon. It is so good. The way he brought together so many cultures is amazing.

It’s not just about an empire for the Persians. (But Persia is pretty good branding, that’s all)

Yes the country is for ever Iran, for all iranians of different ethnicities. The connotation in tourists's mind about "Iran" has to change, were the country to be called Persia today, it would have the same negative sound to it like Iran (arguably) does for some today. Also, most people would be able to distinguish a nazi use of the term Aryan and it's original meaning so that's really not a problem with the name Iran

I know that you're not confusing this but as some others might: Persian language is of the Persian people (although there are many non-persian L2 speakers), it should rightfully still called that and should not be confused with the (settled at this point) debate about the name of the country as a whole

Something similar that confuses me is the recent shift from calling the river "Yangtze" in English to calling it "Yangzi".

Yangzi is the correct pinyin spelling of the syllables that "Yangtze" was meant to indicate. (Similarly, if you want to spell them in modern pinyin, you'd have Laozi instead of Lao Tzu/Tze, Sunzi instead of Sun Tzu, and of course Kongzi instead of Confucius.) But the Chinese name of the river is something completely different. What's the point of updating the spelling of the English name as if it were also the Chinese name?

My (open to correction) understanding was that "Farsi" has some use in referring to the Iranian standardization of Persian (as contrasted to Dari, its Afghani counterpart).
Both are correct. "Farsi" is actually the Arabic version of "Parsi" (meaning "Persian" in, well, Persian). As a Persian, I personally don't use "Farsi".
Do you also personally not use any Arabic derived words in Persian? Silly idea to try to remove Arabic influence on Persian.
Do you try to use Anglaise to refer to the English language? Bad idea to remove French influence on English.
Yes, it is useful when you want to contrast Iranian Persian with other varieties used in Afghanistan, Tajikistan etc., but when talking about all of them together it is confusing.
And where modern Maths come from... Mosques tile embellishments are actually 2d representations of 4th dimensional math concepts...

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Jeasus I have to explain this on HN?

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https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11235-medieval-islami...

https://muslimheritage.com/new-discoveries-in-the-islamic-co...

etc... much learning you need

I HOPE THAT YOU SUCCEED, PLEASE TELL ME WHEN YOU DOU
Once I get a second passport I’m planning to go to Iran. I studied Farsi in college and visiting Iran has been a dream of mine for a long time. With the second passport I’m hoping it’s accepted so I can travel freely without a tour guide.
You may also enjoy Tajikestan. You should have no political restrictions to travel there.
Iranian or Persian? One is a subset of the other and the other encompasses other people who has equally contributed, if not more, to the Iranian culture. Check out Iranic people.