[inDigiNeous]

Interesting story. Wonder what caused his downfall into insanity. Was Zappos getting a sudden influx of money, giving him too much sense of power and importance ?

It's also sad that he felt he had to overachieve, our current system values achievements and work, and many times that goes really out of balance, people trying to become the next multibillionare no matter what, risking their personal health and even leaving them insane in the process like with Tony apparently.

This "biohacking your way to 10x" is unfortunately very prevalent in certain circles, and I understand it, but I think as a society and especially in Silicon Valley and in the software development circles we should remember the importance of resting and taking time off. Your body and especially brain can only take so much.

It is actually kind of stupid how little is talked about the importance of resting. Thinking all the time takes an immense amount of energy, trying to push that year over year, even for decades, can lead to some really unpleasant states, where you try to start self medicating and finding ways to circumvent the need for rest.

I wish there was more talk about taking time off and just being, I bet it would save a lot of people from peer pressure to 10x perform all the time.

I think constantly trying to overachieve is one of the sicknesses in our industry, which is not talked nearly enough about.

[gojomo]

Both wealth and drugs can cause small personality quirks, & slight mental instability, to grow in unchecked proportions.

Synergistically, especially, they can separate people from familiar moderating social situations, and introduce them to riskier situations & exploitative scenes.

Having already become a multibillionaire, it's not clear to me that Hsieh was still driven by any remaining desire or "peer pressure" to "overachieve". He rather seemed unmoored from usual social pressures or limits, and thus unchecked in how absurd his 'business' dealings, personal relationships, & self-exploration could become.

Had Hsieh still been seeking conventional success, or "work"/"achievements" legible to sane peers, he may have moderated his actions, or at least not cut himself off from people offering valid concerns.

[tomhoward]

I’ve noticed in some people that if they get rich and stop working day-to-day, they can go off the rails due to not needing to align their behaviour with the needs/expectations of other “ordinary” people - colleagues, employees, customers, suppliers, etc.

I’ve seen it happen with people who made a lot of money in cryptocurrency and then didn’t need to work anymore, sometimes with disastrous consequences (broken families, spiralling psychotic episodes).

I used to find Tony Hseih inspiring, since I saw him speak at a conference in 2009 when Zappos was at its peak.

But over time he seemed to develop a messiah complex, and with all that money combined with the loss of the anchor to normality that comes with having conventional responsibilities, it just spiraled out of control. It’s very sad.

There were times in my life where I was becoming a bit unhinged - egotistical, even a bit messianic at times. In the end I just couldn’t afford to keep going like that; I wasn’t rich and needed to work so had to figure out how to get onto a healthy path. I now count myself super lucky I never had a big financial windfall before I was forced to go through that process; I could easily have gone down a very bad path if I’d had that.

[thr0amay]

I'm in my late twenties. Not extremely wealthy, but wealthy enough that I do not work or ever need to worry about money. I think a part of the messiah complex comes from guilt. The guilt and feelings of responsibility that "I'm very fortunate so I need to do more for the world (and only I can do it!)". It starts out innocuous but it can become toxic very quickly, especially when combined with some ideological or political component as you stop viewing people as people and it just becomes about maximizing some metric.

Your point about day-to-day "ordinary people" interactions helping to align behavior is crucial. Besides a few close friends, most of my friends do not know of my financial situation. For work, I just say I do freelance consulting since that explains no employer and flexible hours. This does make me feel dishonest and disconnected from them, though. The only thing keeping me anchored to reality is keeping to a "normal" life as that's the only constraint to me going haywire like Tony did. Having regular friends is the only reference point to reality I have.

[TomMasz]

Something definitely happens to people when they become extremely rich. No one will say "no" to them for fear of reprisal. Most of us encounter limits on what we can do, not enough time/money/political power/etc., and it really seems like those limits keep us sane. Once we lose those limits, or believe we've lost them, bad things can happen.

[macNchz]

I think–the way societies often have social norms around potentially harmful things–this reality is a significant driver of social norms among "old money" families with generational wealth. In those circles there is social pressure to not to talk about money, to not spend ostentatiously, and to socialize your children together at specific boarding schools and universities where they will be among others who share these values.

[BenjaminDyer]

I agree totally with your point about learning to rest. I am a startup founder, do way too many hours, plus family life, social, volunteering etc. The funny thing I am just back from a two day break (viewing universities with my daughter) and that hard stop caused me to get some virus, it always happens. Work so hard to the point you need to stop, stop, get ill. I can't be the only one.

Aside from that, it's hard for people lots of people to know when to rest when you have this moronic grind culture buzzing in the background. I despise this crush it, work more, do more things attitude in the start up / tech scene. I would have hoped with a better understanding of peoples mental health this would have vanished by now.

[tomhoward]

I used to notice that I’d seem to come down with a cold as soon as I’d switch off for Christmas/New Year (and this is in Australia when it’s hot summer weather). It seemed to happen several times over consecutive years when I was in peak startup stress mode. Someone told me that it’s a virus that’s been in your system for a while, but “suppressed” somehow, and only when you take a rest is your body able to devote energy to a full immune response. I don’t know how true it is; but an interesting possibility.

[dilyevsky]

There’s a similar thing with headaches/migraines that you get every Saturday morning that I personally experienced