[reset-password]

> "Suing could force the government to start the repayment machinery again, which might not be a terrible thing. Given the low unemployment rate and the existence of income-driven repayment plans for people who are struggling, few people would be ruined by restoring the February 2020 status quo."

This particularly perturbed me with the implication that "ruining" a few people is fine as long as a few other people are made wealthier.

Greatest country etc.

[yeahwhatever10]

I’ll never understand this attitude. “America sucks because you have to repay loans.”

[xigoi]

No, America sucks because you have to take a huge loan in the first place in order to study.

[ThorsBane]

No you don’t. Community college is not that expensive, plenty of jobs offer partial or more tuition reimbursement, and if you get good grades you will have scholarships and grants available. You may have some need left over if you need housing but that’s where loans and a summer job come in. It’s not a free vacation to go to college and be housed there, need to do it with a plan. It’s simple to get a great education without needing huge loans. America is great.

[baggy_trough]

No, certain people decided to do that, but they didn't have to.

[tacitusarc]

Certain people were kids who didn’t know better and were lied to by adults they trusted.

[Ekaros]

Sue the adults then? Surely if enough people sue some court cases against parents, or guidance counsellors or what ever pass.

[tacitusarc]

I agree. They should be sued. Of course it’s incredibly hard to prove and even harder to sue someone you like. And lawsuits where neither side has money are tricky.

Probably universities or departments as a whole should be sued.

[baggy_trough]

Those adults should certainly be ashamed of themselves.

[SamoyedFurFluff]

Yeah I’m sure 17 year old me should bear the full brunt of my decision to go to college for the majority of my earning years

[HEmanZ]

17 year old you should be able to default on student loans and get a clean slate, like any other kind of debt. If student loans worked exactly like regular loans (e.g you could declare bankruptcy, they weren't subsidized, etc.) then no one would give 17 year old you a loan unless you were statistically likely to be able to repay it (i.e majoring in something with good outcomes at a half-decent university). AND schools wouldn't expect you to be able to pull out 50k/year, they would have to adjust tuition accordingly, and we wouldn't have this crazy university tuition inflation.

We're in this mess because federal student loans live in a bizarro world where they're not subject to any of the normal market forces, checks, and balances that make regular debt work well for society. They are handed out without any kind of real due-diligence, and have absolutely no incentive to be good investments.

If we want to redistribute wealth to invest in education, that's fantastic, but we should just give it in the form of grants, scholarships, or (only in my dreams) some free regional federal universities and technical colleges. Instead we tried to play with the market and got burned, which isn't surprising to anyone with who has studied economics.

[baggy_trough]

Should somebody else?

[xigoi]

Yes, the taxpayers who are reaping the benefits of an educated society every day.

[dymk]

Yes, you should. Did you choose an advantageous degree?

[soulofmischief]

This sentiment is predicated on a scarcity mindset. This is America, I thought we were a land of abundance?

[lukeschlather]

No one said they had to, they said they had to in order to study. Which is not the case in more prosperous nations.

[stametseater]

> they had to [take a huge loan] in order to study.

This isn't true. If you go to a state school and work part time to cover your living expenses, you can get an undergrad degree very cheap. And the most prestigious of private schools (e.g. Ivy league) offer very generous needs-based scholarships, so if you come from a poor family you don't have to pay.

You "have to" get a huge loan if you choose to attend a very expensive private school that won't give you a needs-based scholarship. But nobody has to do that, it's a choice some people make. It's a decision made by naive kids straight out of highschool so I still have some sympathy, but this narrative of necessarily having to take huge loans is part of the problem and helps to normalize this. The belief that huge loans are necessary in America is wrong and contributes to the real problem.

From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/11/01/whic...

> The 2021-22 average tuition and fees sticker price for full-time, in-state students at public four-year colleges ranged from a low of $6,100 in Wyoming to a high of $17,750 in Vermont.

> Following Wyoming, the least expensive states were Florida ($6,370), Montana ($7,265), Utah ($7,387), and North Carolina ($7,389).

> After Vermont, the most expensive states for four-year universities were New Hampshire ($17,040), Pennsylvania ($15,312), New Jersey ($14,963), and Illinois ($14,667).

> Over the past five years, average in-state tuition and fees at public four-year institutions fell in 18 states after adjusting for inflation. During that same time period, only six states (Alaska, Connecticut, Nevada, North Dakota, Oregon and Rhode Island) saw their average in-state tuition increase by 10% or more.

> According to the report, in 2019-20, 75% of first-time, full-time students attending public two-year colleges received federal, state or institutional grant aid. At public four-year universities, 78% of students were awarded such aid.

> The average net tuition and fees paid by first-time, full-time in-state students at public four-year institutions was estimated to be $2,640, the lowest it’s been since 2006-07, down more than a $1,000 from a peak in 2012-13 of $3,720 (in 2021 dollars).

[Retric]

The state school thing is not necessarily true. Virginia Tech for example an estimates costs at 32k/year for in state and that doesn’t cover summer expenses. https://www.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/cost.html

Finding for state schools has dropped so low many private schools are cheaper than state schools. That doesn’t mean all schools are unaffordable without loans, living at home while going to school can make a huge difference.

But scool for some doesn’t mean there’s no problem.

[SamoyedFurFluff]

My part time job paid me 7.50/hr, federal minimum wage. At the end of each semester I didn’t even have enough to pay for my “technology fee” much less my living expenses.

[baggy_trough]

They said that, but they were wrong.

[eganist]

[because lobbyists and legislators pushed for regulation that gutted two generations'ability to affordably get an education]

[reocha]

This is pretty normal and how certain economic policies have worked, for example, deregulation of the banks allowed banking companies and their employees to get insanely rich while eventually causing the 2007 recession.

[birdymcbird]

Im disturbed with these “opinion” articles and influence they have.

it still make zero sense to me why student loan payments on hold. should we also put car loan payment on hold? credit card payments?

yes..people took loans without thinking if they pay off debt. is it every borrower? No.

easy scheme for political party to get votes. make perfect sense to me why sofi would sue.

i always think to my home country. being born in USA like winning lottery. just green card and no citizenship is like lottery. endless opportunity to do something in USA. no mentally and physically ok adult in USA have reason to be in poverty.

but of course USA people thinking government magically solve all of it. true irony that developed country fall into our third world thinking mindset.

[hexane360]

What third world countries think 'government magically solves' everything? If anything, trust in government is much higher in regions with more political stability and prosperity.

[birdymcbird]

its not that we believe government DOES solve everything or trust government. it’s that we believe government is the answer and only government responsible.

constant load shedding? parliaments job to fix.

people dont want to obey traffic rule? could it be something with our culture? of course not. government problem to fix.

Ok..trash everywhere in street? government problem to fix. i will say government should fix it, ignoring that it is myself throwing that trash out on the street instead of in bin even when rubbish bin is right there at hand distance.

not enough jobs? government should fix by hiring everyone.

do we trust government, no. but my party is good and yours corrupt. if my prime minister favorite actually shoots child it is okay and i will justify it.

thats the type of mindset. every problem i have.. it is someone else’s fault. i have zero responsibility.

[hexane360]

So you see people both in the third world and first world with this mindset? Is it possible that this mindset isn't actually the cause of the third world's problems? Could it be that the governments are actually worse in the third world?