[locustous]

We have several birds, they mostly like the company of other some other birds. But they really like people too. Even the ones always raised around birds grow attached to their people.

It's much more complex than "leave animals to the wild". One of our birds is a rescue and had found himself a new family when he had gotten loose. He clearly prefers people over birds, every time. Even with a wide selection.

Clearly if you are not home most of the time - don't get birds. But if you are, they are quite good companions if you are also up for their care. And don't mind losing the occasional keyboard to fun time...

They tend to be quite happy when they have some even small space to fly and extensive contact with both their people and others birds. I'll often have two on me while coding, by their choice. The others have other preferences for time use.

When they get out, and it's happened a few times. They very much prefer to be back in their home with their clearly loved social circle.

Flying is nice, it's fun and good exercise, but it's also a means to an end. Being with those they love, finding food, toys, and nesting sites.

[bayesian_horse]

The preference of people over birds is not a good sign. Usually means he wasn't well socialized or even misimprinted. Breeders do that intentionally because people want people-focused parrots. But it's not good for them.

Sometimes that damage can be undone with very careful training and resocializing...

I don't think interaction with people is bad for parrots, but it shouldn't be their only means of scratching their social itches.

[Wowfunhappy]

> The preference of people over birds is not a good sign. Usually means he wasn't well socialized or even misimprinted. Breeders do that intentionally because people want people-focused parrots. But it's not good for them.

How are you deciding what is "good" for a parrot?

A preference for humans is certainly not natural for a parrot. However, I don't think there's anything natural about the way most humans live their lives, and I quite like modern technology. Perhaps parrots similarly appreciate being in a safe environment with loving caretakers. (Or perhaps they don't—but I don't see how we could know either way.)

Put another way, I'm not convinced that living in the wilderness and having to scrounge for food and avoid predators is necessarily a better life than living with a loving human who cares for you. Both are certainly imperfect in different ways, but unfortunately we can't ask the parrots which one they would prefer.

[bayesian_horse]

Those comparisons are meaningless, because this bird is living in Human care through Human decisions (at some point...).

What is less meaningless is the idea that animals should be able to fulfill the full spectrum of their natural behavior. For parrots that means conspecific company. People don't talk like parrots and don't act like parrots. That is consensus among experts, by the way.

[locustous]

Don't know his history. He is clearly old. He doesn't mind other birds, but he loves and takes great delight in people. Just who he is.

Sure, there's history there. But I don't see it as "damage". He is clearly quite happy when he is with his people.

His other great delight is figuring out how to open his palace in the morning to get out early. Every time he manages it he struts around for quite a while looking like he just won the Superbowl.

[bayesian_horse]

I'm not saying these birds can't be happy. Some certainly aren't resocializeable, and there's nothing wrong with keeping them as happy as possible regardless.

One of the most objective criterion for animal welfare is how much of their natural behavior they can fulfill. People don't talk like birds, don't act like birds. Only parrots of pretty much the same species can fulfill some things. I'm not even talking about mating and all the behavior around that, more like everything else.

[locustous]

> I'm not saying these birds can't be happy

That's pretty much the only criteria I'm really interested in.

All our birds have other birds of the same species with them, which they all do enjoy I can confirm. Well, generally :). When one is being obnoxious to others they can flee to their people.

[flangola7]

Do you have any durable evidence to back up those anecdotes?

[locustous]

My best summary from years of experience and observations and learning from several birds. Learning to read their likes and dislikes. Also exposure to others who do the same, bird people.

It is what it is, whatever you may choose to call it. You may also take it or leave it.