[drewcoo]

Um . . . it's not.

It's just hard to understand what all those allistic people mean. Why do they say false things all the time and why is that socially normal? How is falsehood the acceptable norm but not truth?

Things like this article try to construct frameworks for the falsehoods.

Boo! Boo!

/self throws rotten tomatoes

Boo!

[smallest-number]

I think you're right about the framework-constructing.

The social games that make insincerity natural come more intuitively to neurotypicals, so they don't notice they're playing them. When they do, and try to analyse themselves, I don't think they get it right often, because they don't have to build up an understanding of said games from the ground up like we do.

This article isn't based on anything really, it's some rules conjured out of nowhere to explain some anecdotes. Like you said, a framework for the falsehoods more than a tool to be more sincere.

[akomtu]

Allistic? You mean "normal"? They can reflect others in their mind and see how their words change those reflections. Some take it too far and their inner world is a room with mirrored walls: they see many reflections of reflections, distorted by warped mirrors and they make their speech look straight in those reflections. The result is a tall pile of lies. Autists, on the other hand, have a brick wall in place of the mirror, so they talk to others as if they talk to a brick wall.

[mock-possum]

Pretty sure terms like ‘allistic’ are specifically intended to avoid using terms like ‘normal’ when it comes to historically oppressed / minority groups. That’s why it’s not “trans” and “normal” - it’s “trans” and “cis”

Also what does ‘normal’ mean? If you use ‘allistic’ then you make it explicit that you’re addressing something opposed to ‘autistic.’

[satisfice]

Saying “allistic” is a way to market alienation to normal people. I am not buying it.

I am not a normal person in a number of ways. That’s okay with me. A reasonable abnormal person is not offended by that. I am normal in other ways, though.

Look, we have to get along with each other in this human world. Universalizing marginalization through obsessively specific labeling is a failing strategy, because the majority isn’t fooled for long. Normal knows what is normal.

[akomtu]

Inventing contrived words to obscure reality is a form of lying to yourself and others. Normal means typical, "like others". It doesn't mean good, because in a hospital ward it's normal to be sick.

[ethanbond]

Allistic seems pretty useful here actually (first time encountering the word). “Normal” doesn’t describe along which dimension the person is typical. Allistic specifies the relevant one.

[akomtu]

What's wrong with just saying "not autistic"?

[mock-possum]

Are you familiar with the concept of ‘markedness?’

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markedness

Terms like ‘allistic’ counteract the unmarked norm - we have a special word for ‘autistic’ but we don’t say anything about ‘not autistic’ because it’s ‘normal’ - see how that has a judgmental angle?

It’s hard to examine a thing critically when it’s just called ‘normal,’ if it’s called anything at all. It’s much better to be precise in your speech when you’re addressing such deeply entrenched social practices.

It’s far too easy to slip into the “but this is just normal, why do we even need to think about it, let alone make up a word for it” trap and become complacent.

[ethanbond]

Nothing IMO! Languages are pretty good at generating words that are useful and pruning ones that are not, so this will either survive or not survive regardless of the meta-commentary.

[mock-possum]

… what? Specific terminology doesn’t obscure reality, it clarifies it.

[kevviiinn]

>Some take it too far and their inner world is a room with mirrored walls

That sounds like a mental disorder

[Kye]

Consider maybe it's as hard for them to tell the complete truth as it is for you to lie or obfuscate. A little empathy goes a long way. And despite stereotypes, neuroatypical people are capable of it.

[watwut]

The most annoying for me on these theories is that autistic are not more truthful nor more objective. They exaggerate, they say misleading things or just completely confuse own opinion/feeling with objective truth.

[nine_k]

Can't help but link this timeless post: http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

[Doxin]

It's pretty wild how few people say what they mean, and as a result people will end up trying to parse what you're saying for anything but face value.

slightly contrived example: if I ask someone if they would like to go to the beach they'll probably assume I want to go to the beach. As opposed to what I meant to say and actually said. I mean sure, fine, fair enough, if that question is code for "I would like to go to the beach" then I can deal with that. But how am I then supposed to ask if you would like to go? maybe I'm ambivalent but would be okay with going if you would like to.

Now the above example is fairly harmless, but add in a lot of bullshit around people trying to parse emotions from sentences and you can see how this gives autistic people a lot of trouble.

[jiggawatts]

Also, non-autistic people (apparently called "allistic"? TIL).

My partner does this exact same thing. I'm never able to find out what she wants to do, because any such question becomes reinterpreted by her as a "he must want to do this, so I must say what I think he expects me to say" game.

[watwut]

What about asking "what do you want to do" instead of suggesting an activity? The partner here is making reasonable guesses anyway, they are not misinterpreting, they are just not stupid.

They assume you are not setting up the following conversation:

- Would you like to go to beach? - Yes, I would love to! - I am really opposed to the idea!

[mock-possum]

My goto has always been telling other people what I want up front, before asking them what they want to do.

So - “I just want to stay here and chill - how about you, do you want to go to the beach?”

Or - “I’m starving, are you hungry? Should we get food?”

[Doxin]

How about people learn to take what I say at face value? Yes I can work around this sort of nonsense, but doing it all day is exhausting to me.

I've learned how to deal with this sort of thing well enough to the point where most people that know me wouldn't guess I'm autistic, but it sure as heck would be nice if we all didn't invent weird-ass mind games for no benefit all the time.

[bobsmooth]

We're concerned with social effects of saying the wrong thing.

[rcme]

What are you talking about?

[operatingthetan]

I had to google 'allistic':

>For those unfamiliar, “allistic” refers to people who are not on the autism spectrum, and has become an increasingly popular term to help distinguish people from their autistic peers without using judgmental terms like “normal” in contrast to “autistic”.