[nullc]

I've wondered to what extent the death penalty is useful so that people can send an innocent person to life in prison while patting themselves on the back for being so civilized and compassionate that they didn't literally kill them.

As a former engineer and manager whos partner is a lawyer I'll almost certainly never be empaneled to a jury, but I've heard from plenty of people who were.

One instance comes to mind where a (ordinarily) bright coworker returned from jury duty and told me about how they convicted someone of a lesser charge which was logically impossible to be guilty of without being guilty of the more serious charge. The jury were convinced he was innocent but was also convinced that he was a bad dude and it didn't feel right that he'd get off. My understanding is that no one in the jury thought he was guilty of the crimes he was accused of (the lesser or the greater), but the prosecution had successfully (and perhaps rightfully) smeared the accused's character.

I didn't talk about it with him further have hearing his description because I didn't know how to be civil about it, my coworker sent an person to prison who wasn't guilty. Not a jury, but him: 'cause a single person could have hung that jury and he didn't. I get that the social pressure can be intense, and I try to have sympathy for people who are trying to do the right thing in such situations... but... damn.

[inferiorhuman]

  I get that the social pressure can be intense, and I try to have sympathy
  for people who are trying to do the right thing in such situations... but...
  damn.

If you're curious, you should talk to him. I was a juror on a murder case, voted to convict one of the defendants. While he did, in fact, kill the victim (affirmative defense), I'm unsure that I would class his actions as murder or manslaughter. And I'm sure I'm not comfortable with the sentence a murder conviction carried, although my peers were quite confident (again, affirmative defense).

Sure, there's peer pressure, but there's a lot more pressure from the legal system to adhere to archaic definitions of truth and guilt. Pressure from the legal system carries a much bigger stick than pressure from the other jurors. Don't even think about jury nullification or you'll be on a judge's shit list. Trust that the police translated things into English correctly before the official translator arrived. Trust that there aren't any mitigating circumstances in the undocumented gap in time. Trust that the judge is not withholding material evidence. I rationalize my behavior because I followed the letter and spirit of. the law, but yeah there's a fair bit of shame and regret that tends to stick with me. Personally I'd aim for empathy were I you because nothing in our legal system is so cut and dry.

[nullc]

It's been well over a decade-- so no contact now. I did talk about it enough that I was pretty convinced that they thought they were innocent of the charges. It's can be much harder to understand someone's position when you're not under the pressures yourself, I surely didn't at the time though I was aware but being aware doesn't mean getting it.

I think at the time I perceived him as being kind of glib about it, bragging that they didn't give the person a worse conviction. In hindsight, he may have been feeling bad and looking for validation or an escape from his doubts. But I couldn't be too helpful then because I didn't get it. Maybe I get it a little more now, or at least I'm less prone to think that individuals doing the "right" thing (though they should!) is a meaningful fix for systemic problems. ... and a lot less enamored with the idea that anyone should be rushing into making trouble for themselves out of some principle.

That jurors take their role seriously and make their best effort as they understand it is all we can fairly ask of anyone.

Thank you for stepping up to mention your experience and for your service. Had you not been in seat it would have been someone else, perhaps someone who'd suffer the same regrets you've suffered (so you spared them), or someone who would have taken it less seriously and suffered no lingering regrets (unfair to accused, their victims, and the public-- regardless of the outcome).

[maxwell]

> Don't even think about jury nullification or you'll be on a judge's shit list.

Curious what that means in practice? What can a judge do to a juror?

[inferiorhuman]

At the very least hold you in contempt.