[inferiorhuman]

  Natural gas is underground and virtually never has an outage.

What? I mean the obvious response is to point out that time that PG&E used natural gas to blow up a San Bruno neighborhood. After the explosion we found out that PG&E actually had no idea how much they could pressurize their pipeline (and in fact they falsified records to cover this up).

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-pge-safety-investigat...

Beyond that leaks happen all the time, and explosions happen from time to time. I'm just gonna throw it out there, PG&E turns off gas service when there's a leak… causing… you know… an outage.

Oakland City Hall evacuated due to gas leak. 2014. https://w3.calema.ca.gov/mail/OperationsPortal.nsf/89f857187...

Car crash causes Oakland gas leak. 2021. https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/08/14/oakland-street-evacua...

Oakland gas explosion. 2010. https://6abc.com/archive/7828878/

Gas leak, explosion. San Francisco, 2007. https://www.mercurynews.com/2007/02/07/gas-leak-causes-explo...

Natural gas power plant explosion in Hayward. 2021. https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights...

Gas explosion, three alarm fire. San Francisco. 2019 https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/san-francisco-gas-...

Gas explosion and fire. Daly City, 2023. https://abc7news.com/daly-city-gas-line-fire-evacuations-lea...

Gas leak, evacuations. Sausalito 2022. https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/fire-units-respond-to-na...

Gas leak, evacuations. Antioch, 2023. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/gas-leak-in-antioc...

Gas leak, evacuations. San Francisco, 2022. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/evacuations-shelte...

Gas leak, evacuations. Menlo Park, 2022. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/crash-menlo-park-s...

Gas leak, evacuations. Corte Madera, 2022. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/corte-madera-gas-l...

Ruptured gas line, evacuations. San Francisco, 2022. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/ruptured-gas-line-...

Gas leak, shelter-in-place. Emeryville, 2022. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/emeryville-gas-lea...

Gas leak, evacuations. Morgan Hill, 2021 https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/firefighters-at-sc...

PG&E causes gas leak, evacuations. Daly City, 2012. https://www.mercurynews.com/2012/07/09/pge-worker-causes-lea...

Gas leak, evacuations. Daly City, 2019. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/significant-gas-leak-p...

Gas leak. Daly City, 2017. https://patch.com/california/pacifica/gas-leak-fixed-nearby-...

Gas leak. Foster City, 2015. https://www.kron4.com/news/vehicle-crash-causes-gas-leak-in-...

Gas leak. San Francisco, 2016. https://www.kron4.com/news/crews-at-scene-of-gas-leak-in-san...

[emodendroket]

This case in Massachusetts was also notable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrimack_Valley_gas_explosion...

> On September 13, 2018, excessive pressure in natural gas lines owned by Columbia Gas of Massachusetts caused a series of explosions and fires to occur in as many as 40 homes, with over 80 individual fires, in the towns of Lawrence, Andover, and North Andover, all within the Merrimack Valley, in Massachusetts, United States. One person, Leonel Rondon, was killed and 30,000 were forced to evacuate their homes immediately.

One thing I learned around this time is in Massachusetts a number of wooden lines are in service and nobody knows exactly where they all are.

[refurb]

None of those are broad interruptions of service?

[inferiorhuman]

Neither are the overwhelming majority of electrical outages. Then again firemen don't usually respond to electrical outages, and most electrical outages don't trigger evacuations, so there's that.

Besides the claim was "virtually never has an outage" not "virtually never has a widespread outage".

  And im not talking the boonies. Im talking just outside San Francisco.

Aside from the market manipulation outages of 2001 and the initial round of public safety shutoffs, there weren't widespread interruptions of service. In fact last year the only rolling blackouts in the Bay Area were more or less accidental as whatever city (Alameda? Palo Alto?) jumped the gun.

  Gas is way more reliable than electricity in CA.

Meanwhile Texas had widespread natural gas outages in 2021 and 2022. It's been a few years since I've had a power outage out here, and given the current state of PG&E's gas infra I wouldn't exactly call it reliable.

The thing with a power outage is that you'll sit around and enjoy having gas appliances. Whereas with a gas outage, you'll sit around and hope your house doesn't blow up.

[refurb]

California has had rolling black outs the last few summers.

And im not talking the boonies. Im talking just outside San Francisco.

Gas is way more reliable than electricity in CA.

[inferiorhuman]

Oh if we're talking the rest of California… it's less of a service outage and more like a mass evacuation (8,000+ families). Then again I'd say regular leaks, fires, and explosions do not a reliable delivery system make.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-27/so-cal-g...

[refurb]

We’re not talking mass evacuation were talking outage.

But anyways, how many people died from the wildfires started by power lines?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/22/pge-power-l...

[inferiorhuman]

  But anyways, how many people died from the wildfires started by power lines?

Certainly fewer than succumb to natural gas related causes. Nationwide somewhere around 15 people die annually from pipeline related incidents, over 400 from carbon monoxide poisoning. Safety with electrical stuff marches forward. Fault (ground, arc) interrupters, fused plugs, polarized and grounded receptacles. Safety with gas handling has basically stagnated and we can't even get gas powered appliances to not leak gas.

California's got a long history of safety problems with natural gas:

https://la.curbed.com/2016/3/8/11181374/gas-leaks-los-angele...

[emodendroket]

If you’re having a mass evacuation you can’t very well use your appliances. What’s the point of this nitpick?

[Zigurd]

Another tragedy of the commons: Leaking gas infrastructure pollutes, causes explosion risks, and puts a greenhouse gas into the atmosphere, and gas companies just have subscribers pay for the losses. Not that PG&E didn't socialize risk while privatizing profit regarding fires.